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Old 10-21-2005, 07:47 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


No one is saying don't call Christmas Christmas.

But a child who's not Christian who's going to a Christmas party at school and taking part in Christmas activities may be confused as to why his faith isn't being recognized.

No one's going to lose anything if they can't do Christmas at school. I mean come on.

Some of you are really losing sight as to what Christmas is about and what this country is about.

And the author of this book should step out of his or her little shell for one second and take a good look at themselves.
No one has ever been converted to Christianity because they participated in a few Christmas activities at school. No one has been persecuted by this in the past. Its not been a problem in the past, and its only a problem now because of a small number of people who are using their non-christian beliefs as a way to stop cultural traditions that have been practiced for centuries.
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Old 10-21-2005, 07:48 PM   #107
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Then why not call it a holiday party? Seems pretty easy to me.

So all the fun gets taken away when you change the name? Oh my...
Why change the name of something thats always been fun and never caused anyone a problem?
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Old 10-21-2005, 08:00 PM   #108
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Originally posted by STING2


Why change the name of something thats always been fun and never caused anyone a problem?
So you've been a young Jewish child?

You know for sure no one's ever felt excluded. Wow your powers are amazing.
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Old 10-21-2005, 08:01 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2


No one has ever been converted to Christianity because they participated in a few Christmas activities at school.
Not the point.
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Old 10-21-2005, 08:03 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


So you've been a young Jewish child?

You know for sure no one's ever felt excluded. Wow your powers are amazing.
What about the kids that feel excluded because they don't have a Christmas party?
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Old 10-21-2005, 08:05 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


No one is saying don't call Christmas Christmas.

But a child who's not Christian who's going to a Christmas party at school and taking part in Christmas activities may be confused as to why his faith isn't being recognized.
Instead of recognizing faith in Santa Claus?

No one is arguing for religious celebrations in school.

But the clear implication is that saying the word "Christmas" is some how violating someone's right to the extent that we should not use the word.
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Old 10-21-2005, 08:11 PM   #112
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"The holidays" is that time between Christmas and New Years - and Chanukah and Kwanzaa - and it's much easier to say "I'm going home for the holidays" rather than saying "I'm going home for Christmas and New Years"........
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Old 10-21-2005, 08:13 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally posted by randhail


What about the kids that feel excluded because they don't have a Christmas party?
That's ridiculous. No one's excluded in a holiday party.

You have Christmas at home and church.
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Old 10-21-2005, 08:14 PM   #114
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


But the clear implication is that saying the word "Christmas" is some how violating someone's right to the extent that we should not use the word.
Why do you have to use the word in school?
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Old 10-21-2005, 08:52 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Why do you have to use the word in school?
I guess you summed up the whole point of this thread with one question. The word is a normal part of US culture. And now you want to excluded it.
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Old 10-21-2005, 09:19 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Why do you have to use the word in school?
Because Christmas is the name of the holiday, therefore it should be called a Christmas party. No one is forcing anyone to say or use it, but people do and I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Is saying Christmas at school now like saying bomb on a airplane? Should the classroom be devoid of decorations too?
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Old 10-21-2005, 10:00 PM   #117
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Racism against Muslims is a myth? There's been a 600% increase in the number of racist attacks in the UK since July, primarily targeted against the Muslim community or people the racists believe are Muslim. There have been numerous examples of mosques being attacked and people being physically assaulted. And yet you dismiss it as a "total and utter myth"?
It is a complete and total myth! Racism against Muslims? Are they Pakistani, Arab, Persian or Malay? There is no Muslim race.

This is the absurdity that I hate, people classifying those who adhere to ideas as race. People are not genetically Muslim, there is nothing inherently racist about attacking Muslims ~ it is utterly wrong, violent and bigoted but it is not in itself racist. People who do attack

The blending of Islam into race is in itself a very effective ploy, it has enabled the adoption of racial and religious vilification laws that offer undue protection from criticism to Muslims by others but don't seem to be used when some Muslim groups start talking about nonbelievers in nasty sorts of ways - a specific cases iin Victoria is Daniel Scott and Daniel Naliah and the evangelical Catch the Fire ministries. They gave a talk about how to convert Muslims and talk to them about Christianity, they got dragged into court on charges under the new Racial and Religious Vilification laws. They were tried and have to pay 60,000 dollars for a published apology, they are refusing to do so and may face jail.

Now I don't agree with this lot, I am not a Christian but this case is disturbing. It demonstrates how freedom of speech can be curbed by religious groups when they use charges of racism as protection, it clouds the issues. It grants legal protection from criticism to ideas. It goes against the very concepts of free speech.

Fuck religious tolerance, I want my free speech to use or abuse however I see fit in my godless way.
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Old 10-22-2005, 01:25 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


I guess you summed up the whole point of this thread with one question. The word is a normal part of US culture. And now you want to excluded it.
Oh! You've also summed it up! America is a Christian country, because this is clearly a normal part of your culture. However, due to the niggling little fact that America actually isn't a Christian country, you guys are annoyed that it's being stripped from you...your culture?
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Old 10-22-2005, 09:15 AM   #119
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Mmmmm....I am treading lightly hear. A lot has been said that I agree with (thanks Angie! and Yolland ). A few quickies that I think might benefit this debate.

1. Sting, may I ask when the last time you were involved with public schools? I don't know if you have kids, or were/are a teacher, administrator. If you were/are any of these things, my feeling is you'd know it DOES cause problems.

2. Might we do well to distinguish between bigotry (being left out, disrespected, disliked for one's faith, whatever it is) which I could agree does happen to all faith groups at different times in the US, Christians included...and persecution, which would have to be more serious in my definition of the word (involving actual STATE restriction of rights, violence, being jailed, arrested, etc, as happens often to Christians in places like Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, etd --see Amnesty Intl)--and those of other faiths in many other parts of the world).

3. What do we mean by USE of the word Christmas, exactly? There's a difference between somone casually saying "Merry Christmas" at the water cooler and having signs up all over the lunch room saying "You're invited to our annual Christmas Party".

4. A-Wanderer: A Jews a religion or a race? (Yes, this is a trick question. )
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Old 10-22-2005, 09:35 AM   #120
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem


Oh! You've also summed it up! America is a Christian country, because this is clearly a normal part of your culture. However, due to the niggling little fact that America actually isn't a Christian country, you guys are annoyed that it's being stripped from you...your culture?
You've oversimplified my statement to miss my point. Christianity is part of US culture - that doesn't make it the sole religion of US culture. Have you missed all the statements and suggestions about Christians being a majority in the US?

So the niggling little fact is that BVS's question goes to the heart of the desire to eliminate the word Christmas as one that needs to be justified for use in today's culture.
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