The War on Christmas - Page 6 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-21-2005, 01:43 PM   #76
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


There are groups of Christians in Egypt (and they actually may be a majority in southern Egypt), but they are consistently the target of discrimination.

But, you are right, no one wants to mention that.
Because we aren't talking about other countries, we are talking about the US.

In the US you are not discriminated against. There are people who do not like you because of your religion, but you do NOT face government sanctioned restrictions of your right to practice your religion in your own home or on private property.

There are some restrictions on what can be practiced on public property (although those all too often get very blurry and most often in favor of Christians to the exclusion of all others), but I sincerely doubt you'd like to see all practices be allowed in public, so you should suck it up just like everyone els has to.
__________________

__________________
indra is offline  
Old 10-21-2005, 01:46 PM   #77
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 04:45 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by indra
Schools censor a whole lot of things. And I'm guessing many which you would and do find perfectly acceptable. So I'm also guessing you only cry presecution or bigotry when it's something you give a shit about.

Prove me wrong. Tell me you would allow a student to say or discuss anything in school.
Define the basis for which a school should censor speech. And tell me if Merry Christmas fall under those guidelines.

And you can stop the "give a shit" about it nonsense.
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 10-21-2005, 01:48 PM   #78
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by randhail


That's not persecution, the persecution would come when you have a classroom full of pissed off 5th graders at the one student who didn't want a Christmas party.
I think you need a dictionary.
__________________
indra is offline  
Old 10-21-2005, 01:48 PM   #79
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 01:45 PM
I suggest a moratorium on these threads. They always seem to generate more heat than light.
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 10-21-2005, 01:52 PM   #80
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
I suggest a moratorium on these threads.
There are so many other types of threads that do the same

Honestly though I think some people are only interested in things that they can beat to death so to speak and insult people about. Pounce on me for saying that but it's just mho. There's no need to insult people.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 10-21-2005, 01:58 PM   #81
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
randhail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Outside Providence
Posts: 3,557
Local Time: 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by indra


I think you need a dictionary.
I'm quite familiar with the dictionary chief. All I was saying was that by taking away a party because of one child, the rest of the classroom is likely to be mad at the child who had the party taken away. Call me silly, but I think that would be worse than having the child not participate in the party. As a teacher, it would make my job easier but not having to deal with some pissed off kids.
__________________
randhail is offline  
Old 10-21-2005, 01:58 PM   #82
Blue Crack Addict
 
phanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: in the darkness on the edge of town
Posts: 25,062
Local Time: 07:45 AM
An article from a rabbi last year:


Religious cultural wars and the battle over Christmas

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: December 16, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern


© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com


The explosion of spiritual warfare here in the United States over the legality of Christmas displays on public property has the religious and secular tearing the nation asunder. The division over Bush-Kerry, it seems, is child's-play compared to the division over "Merry Christmas" vs. "Happy Holidays."

At the root of the dispute is a ferocious battle on the part of America's religious Christian community to stop what they see as a secular assault on Christianity. Buoyed by President Bush's victory in November, religious Christians wish to bring back the religious nature of Christmas to public life after its steady and successful marginalization.

Some of the well-publicized stories that highlight the trend include the assault on the very words "Merry Christmas," which are being replaced with "Happy Holidays" in city halls and public schools. The Federated Department Stores, which includes Macy's, told their managers to avoid displaying "Merry Christmas" banners in their stores, a growing trend in American retailing.

In Denver, a church was banned from the city's Festival of Lights parade because it wanted a Christian religious theme to its float. In Maplewood, N.J., a school board banned the singing of "Silent Night, Holy Night" from a school choir performance. And Mayor Michael Bloomberg of New York insisted that the lighted tree outside City Hall is not a Christmas tree, but a "Holiday" tree.

But the biggest story of all was the decision of federal Judge Charles Sift banning Nativity scenes from New York public schools, ruling that while Christmas trees, menorahs, and the Islamic crescent were secular – and therefore permitted – Nativity scenes were religious and had thus no place in classrooms.

I empathize with my Christian brethren's outrage at the attempted banning of Christmas from American public life. America needs more of God, not less. Secularism was tried in America over the past half century. It failed miserably, leading to a 50 percent divorce rate, out-of-control teen sexuality and pregnancy, rampant drug abuse and a nihilistic culture that worships money and materialism. Furthermore, as a Jew, I have to object to a menorah being allowed in public property, but not a Nativity scene.

But that having been said, America is not a Christian country. The United States has no official state religion and my Christian brothers and sisters err when they forget that the Pilgrims came to America to escape a country that did have a state religion.

What makes religion in America so particularly successful is that, in the United States, religion is an act of choice rather force, personal conviction rather than collective coercion. Because faith in this country requires heartfelt affirmation, it embeds itself more deeply in the human consciousness.

In countries like England where Christianity is state-sponsored and automatic, it is taken for granted, which is why the Church of England has become a rotting corpse, with empty pews and a host of vicars who are not even sure they believe in God. Americans, by contrast, must affirm their faith as an intimate testimonial, and that's what makes American religion so passionate.

So how should the United States address this controversy over Christmas? The best approach is to allow passive religious displays – such as Nativity scenes and Hanukkah menorahs – in public places, but ban active religious exhibitions which are coercive to participants. A simple case in point is the singing of "Silent Night" in that New Jersey school.

It is grossly unfair to force a Jewish or Muslim child to sing Christian spirituals if they wish to participate in the school choir. That kind of active coercion is anathema to everything the United States stands for and causes grievous offense to non-Christians who have no interest in participating in Christian ritual. But what possible offense could a Nativity scene cause in a city square? If you don't like it, don't look. Walk on the other side of the road.

The same is true of banners reading "Merry Christmas." As long as there are other banners reading "Happy Hanukkah," or "Happy Holidays," why should anyone take offense? Why should Christians have to suffer the conscious purging of their religion from public life, especially in a country founded on Judeo-Christian values? We dare not become a fanatically secular country like France, whose idea of liberty is banning overtly religious symbols like headscarves and Yarmulkes from schools.

But I do lament one development in the religious wars on the part of the religious themselves, namely, a propensity for highlighting the trivial and symbolic, while ignoring the substantive and meaningful – thereby portraying religious people as unnecessarily cantankerous and hypocritical.

America's Christians seem more offended by not seeing a "Merry Christmas" sign in a shopping mall than the wholesale commercial exploitation of Christmas as it is celebrated in a department store rather than a church. Did Jesus and his followers really celebrate his birthday with Santa and his reindeer? Rather than prayer and acts of charity, did Matthew and Peter commemorate Christmas by leaving each other DVD players under a tree?

While I cannot claim to know the mind of Jesus, something tells me that if He were to come back and see Christmas on Fifth Avenue in New York City, the last thing on his mind would be that there was no "Merry Christmas" banner in Bloomingdales.
__________________
phanan is offline  
Old 10-21-2005, 02:03 PM   #83
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 04:45 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
I suggest a moratorium on these threads. They always seem to generate more heat than light.


We tend to know where everyone stands. I'd toss "theocracy watch", abortion and gay marriage in there as well.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 10-21-2005, 02:06 PM   #84
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 01:45 PM
^ Agreed.
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 10-21-2005, 02:13 PM   #85
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
Honestly, I wonder if this book is really worth all the huffing and puffing going on in here. It sounds suspiciously like a motley collection of random instances of uncoordinated PC idiocy, baseless urban myths, and spurious whining about basically nothing thrown together in one sloppy, half-baked attempt to further convince those whose minds are already made up that some deep-rooted plot to cow Christians into silence is afoot.


making people feel like victims -- especially when they are in the majority, and therefore are a much bigger market than any minority group -- is a great way to, say, sell books, or get people to listen to your radio talk show, or to win elections.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 10-21-2005, 02:13 PM   #86
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
I suggest a moratorium on these threads. They always seem to generate more heat than light.
I don't think the problem is the topic really (nor the participants), rather the general tendency for Internet arguments to devolve into a breathless exchange of rapid-fire one-liners (make that seventy-one-liners for the more verbose among us--same difference, it's still off-the-cuff). These topics deserve more measured consideration. (And actually reading all the preceding posts before you jump in!)

I kind of enjoyed it though, personally...
__________________
yolland is offline  
Old 10-21-2005, 02:14 PM   #87
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
We tend to know where everyone stands. I'd toss "theocracy watch", abortion and gay marriage in there as well.


hopefully, the elections in 2006 and in 2008 will eliminate the need for a theocracy watch.

until then, i stand, ever vigilant.

__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 10-21-2005, 02:28 PM   #88
The Fly
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 106
Local Time: 07:45 AM
Let's look at the upside of celebrating all cultural / religious beliefs and holidays. In NY/NJ where I live there is a large Jewish population that celebrates a lot of their holidays by taking the day off. When this happens my 1.5 HR commute to work in the morning drops to 30 minutes!!! I am in favor of more celebration.....makes my life a whole lot easier!
__________________
mattgerth is offline  
Old 10-21-2005, 02:52 PM   #89
New Yorker
 
Sherry Darling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,857
Local Time: 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by randhail


No one is forcing you to participate in anything. If you don't like the situation, then leave. You have the freedom to do that. It's pretty simple.
What a poor arguement, Randhail. You must know that the law does indeed compell kids to be in school.
__________________
Sherry Darling is offline  
Old 10-21-2005, 03:02 PM   #90
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
randhail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Outside Providence
Posts: 3,557
Local Time: 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling


What a poor arguement, Randhail. You must know that the law does indeed compell kids to be in school.
My post was in regard to prayer rooms at airports, not about school. I'm well aware the law states kids have to go to school.
__________________

__________________
randhail is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com