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Old 10-21-2005, 11:32 AM   #31
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The book seems over the top.

But I do wonder, why is it we are expected to build prayer rooms for Muslims in our airports, yet Merry Christmas is somehow 'discriminatory'?
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Old 10-21-2005, 11:35 AM   #32
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
The examples given in the book had nothing to do with forcing children to sing explicitly Christian songs. Quite the contrary, it prohibited a Christian from using the simple expression of "Merry Christmas".
According to one of the (for what it's worth) more intelligent-sounding Amazon reviewers, that particular story is an urban myth long since discredited in Chicago, where it originated.
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Old 10-21-2005, 11:41 AM   #33
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Now it is a matter of degree? You can be a bigot as long as you don't physically assult someone, etc.? This goes back to a concept of "acceptable" bigotry.
I take it then that as a Christian you've never faced any of the examples of persecution I listed in my previous post. How suprising.

And no, bigotry isn't okay whether it takes the form of physical violence or any other form but it just makes me laugh when Christians moan about how persecuted they are when I know that it's other religious groups who actually face persecution for their religious beliefs. Like I said, come back when you face true persecution for your religion, until then don't bother looking for persecution where none exists.


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Where does this come from? The examples given in the book had nothing to do with forcing children to sing explicitly Christian songs. Quite the contrary, it prohibited a Christian from using the simple expression of "Merry Christmas".
One of the examples was of Christmas carols not being used in schools. Presumably the reason for this was that some people raised an objection to children being expected to sing an explicitly Christian song regardless of their own religious convictions.
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Old 10-21-2005, 11:42 AM   #34
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Typical FYM mentality. Some will defend a charge of racism because the victim should be the one to determine the validity of the charge.

But when it is suggested about Christians, we get responses along the lines of "there are enough of them out there - they can handle it." Guess what - the bigotry is still there.

And we STILL don't have one law that requires you to be a Christian.
None of your rights have been taken away. Why I have no sympathy for Christians a lot of the time is because, to them, "their freedom" is the right to take freedoms away from other people. And then when courts tell them they can't, they cry "discrimination."

I don't know whether devout Christians are collectively psychotic or just victims of two millennia of vigorous brainwashing.

Maybe we should really take away your rights, and then maybe Christianity will stop crying wolf and actually gain some long-overdue empathy for other people.

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Old 10-21-2005, 11:43 AM   #35
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But I do wonder, why is it we are expected to build prayer rooms for Muslims in our airports, yet Merry Christmas is somehow 'discriminatory'?
Because there's a big difference between providing the means for someone to follow their religious convictions and expecting people to participate in an explicitly Christian celebration regardless of their own religious convictions. How does a Muslim prayer room in an airport affect you? It makes no difference to me if a prayer room is provided at an airport, but it does make a difference to me if I'm expected to participate in a celebration of a religion I reject.
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Old 10-21-2005, 11:46 AM   #36
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But I do wonder, why is it we are expected to build prayer rooms for Muslims in our airports, yet Merry Christmas is somehow 'discriminatory'?
You neglect the fact that airports have had, and for a long time, prayer chapels suitable for Christians. I have no opposition to that whatsoever. But with that commitment comes the responsibility to accomodate other faiths. There are far more Muslims in this world than there are Protestant Christians (since the Catholic Church would probably not look favorably on those chapels, I haven't included them in the list).

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Old 10-21-2005, 11:48 AM   #37
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Originally posted by financeguy
The book seems over the top.

But I do wonder, why is it we are expected to build prayer rooms for Muslims in our airports, yet Merry Christmas is somehow 'discriminatory'?
And, as I intended to mention in my previous post - why "our" airports? Aren't Muslims a part of "our" society (by which I'm guessing you mean your own country or perhaps just the West in general)?
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Old 10-21-2005, 11:49 AM   #38
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees

It makes no difference to me if a prayer room is provided at an airport, but it does make a difference to me if I'm expected to participate in a celebration of a religion I reject.
No one is forcing you to participate in anything. If you don't like the situation, then leave. You have the freedom to do that. It's pretty simple.
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Old 10-21-2005, 11:49 AM   #39
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Originally posted by yolland

You didn't say whether you considered the examples in the link "bigotry" or not.
Prohibiting someone from saying "Merry Christmas" is religious based censorship.

And Arizona prohibiting a student (not a teacher) from discussing the religious aspects of Christmas falls in the same category.
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Old 10-21-2005, 11:51 AM   #40
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
[BAnd no, bigotry isn't okay whether it takes the form of physical violence or any other form but it just makes me laugh when Christians moan about how persecuted they are when I know that it's other religious groups who actually face persecution for their religious beliefs. Like I said, come back when you face true persecution for your religion, until then don't bother looking for persecution where none exists.
[/B]
Are you saying that Christians haven't endured any persecution for their beliefs? History has countless examples of them being persecuted.
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Old 10-21-2005, 11:52 AM   #41
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Originally posted by randhail
No one is forcing you to participate in anything. If you don't like the situation, then leave. You have the freedom to do that. It's pretty simple.
So why don't we go back to your example about schools. You said you would "make the people who find it offensive leave the classroom." Why should some children be excluded from class because you want to celebrate a particular religion? Why are your religious convictions important enough to give you the right to exclude others?
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Old 10-21-2005, 11:53 AM   #42
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Originally posted by randhail
Are you saying that Christians haven't endured any persecution for their beliefs? History has countless examples of them being persecuted.
I'm sure there are examples of anti-Christian prejudice in history. However to pretend Christians are persecuted in twenty-first century America is nonsense.
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Old 10-21-2005, 11:54 AM   #43
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Originally posted by melon
There are far more Muslims in this world than there are Protestant Christians (since the Catholic Church would probably not look favorably on those chapels, I haven't included them in the list).
In the world, yes. But countries like the United Kingdom have Christian heritages and I have see a sign to a prayer room for Muslims in Heathrow airport. But's its not a big deal. I just mention the point in passing.
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Old 10-21-2005, 11:55 AM   #44
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Are you saying that Christians haven't endured any persecution for their beliefs? History has countless examples of them being persecuted.
The Roman Empire is dead. The Soviet Union is history. Yes, there are examples of current and real persecution in places like China that are happening today, and I hope that someday that ends.

But that's not what we're talking about. Most of us here live in the U.S./Europe/Australia where "Christian persecution" does not exist, and people seem to cry "persecution" if the state does not publically sponsor their belief system. It's a complete slap in the face to people around the world who are really being persecuted for their beliefs. We're very lucky to be able to nitpick over stupid things like saying "Happy Holidays" over "Merry Christmas."

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Old 10-21-2005, 11:56 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
And no, bigotry isn't okay whether it takes the form of physical violence or any other form but it just makes me laugh when Christians moan about how persecuted they are when I know that it's other religious groups who actually face persecution for their religious beliefs. Like I said, come back when you face true persecution for your religion, until then don't bother looking for persecution where none exists.
I'd give your statement credibility if you said the same thing about Stephen Jackson's cry of racism.

And it is curious how you say bigotry is okay, but you'll laugh at some forms of bigotry.
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