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Old 03-24-2002, 07:50 AM   #16
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firstly, all respect to the peoples who lost their lives because of the nazi's, i visited a concentration camp last year and it was an amazing experience for me.

but i have to say, the sienfeld reference there was pure gold! im sorry...

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Old 03-27-2002, 12:23 PM   #17
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Please correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Rush call feminists feminazis??
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Old 03-27-2002, 07:25 PM   #18
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I'm female. Does that mean if i am a siamese twin, i have the right to butcher my twin, simply because i have the right to make my own decision? Its the SAME thing. They are connected, but it is NOT your body!!!!!!!
And, btw, i do not actually believe abortion should be made illegal, but only because there are too many people in this world, and due to the stupidity of some women, prolly should be kept legal to control more stupid people from being born. And of course, it must always be legal in certain circumstances.
I just wish people would stop denying that they are, in fact, killing someone.
Oh, and I'm not against the term Feminazi either. There are SOOOOOOOO many "women" (actually male wannabes) who fit that description!

[This message has been edited by Miss MacPhisto (edited 03-27-2002).]
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Old 03-27-2002, 08:34 PM   #19
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For some reason i found that post exremely offensive.

Does that mean if i am a siamese twin, i have the right to butcher my twin, simply because i have the right to make my own decision? Its the SAME thing. They are connected, but it is NOT your body!!!!!!!

I really cant see how it is the same thing. I am not for or againist abortion but dont you think it is difeent because the twin is alive outside of a womb. That they will fell the pain and that you would die also.

This thread is getting demented.

Back to the Nazi issue. I totally agree with Elvis that this word is one to be used catiuosly. I have seen many teachers be called Nazi's and i even had a Asst Princpal who had Nazi artifacts. He was riducled for it by many people. He had a shaved head to add to the trouble. But when you actually asked him about it he would tell you the story of how his two uncles and aunt and grandparents were killed only his father and another brother survived. He was very knowledgable about the subject. He did not support these people he only had books around and artifacts to remind him of the hate.

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Old 03-28-2002, 03:41 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by radiodivision:
Please correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Rush call feminists feminazis??
Sadly, you're right, in fact he was really the person who made that word widely known. He uses it to describe women who are pro-choice, because he claims their only goal in life is to ensure as many abortions as possible are performed. He completely misses the point that to be pro-choice is not to be pro-abortion, it's not to say you believe abortion is a solution to every unplanned pregnancy, it simply means that you believe women should be trusted to make that decision for themselves.
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Old 03-28-2002, 05:46 AM   #21
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Originally posted by Miss MacPhisto:
And, btw, i do not actually believe abortion should be made illegal, but only because there are too many people in this world, and due to the stupidity of some women, prolly should be kept legal to control more stupid people from being born.
Why is it only the stupidity of some women? After all, it takes both a man and a woman for a woman to become pregnant, so surely if we're blaming the woman for having unprotected sex, it has to be at least half the man's fault also.

Quote:
Oh, and I'm not against the term Feminazi either. There are SOOOOOOOO many "women" (actually male wannabes) who fit that description!


I thought we (as in everyone here) had all agreed that the use of the word 'nazi' other than to describe those who subscribe to fascist ideologies is completely wrong. But you think it's okay to use the term to describe women who are pro-choice? Would it still be wrong in every other case or are there other exceptions?

I suppose if I'm pro-choice then I fit Rush's description. I do volunteer work for anti-racism campaigns, but apparently I can be compared to the most racist ideology imaginable, because of my beliefs about abortion. I don't want to start an argument here but I do find that really offensive.

Also, why use the phrase 'male wannabes'? Feminists don't want to be men, they just want women to be treated equally with men. We want to be paid the same as men for the same work; we want to be fairly represented in government or any other important decision-making body; we want to be able to have children and know that it won't ruin our careers; we want to be free to walk down the street without fear of being attacked; we don't want a world where one in four women is physically attacked by her partner, or where one in six women is raped in her lifetime. Please don't include me in the 'male wannabes' category, I'm proud to be a woman.
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Old 03-28-2002, 09:20 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Miss MacPhisto:
I'm female. Does that mean if i am a siamese twin, i have the right to butcher my twin, simply because i have the right to make my own decision? Its the SAME thing. They are connected, but it is NOT your body!!!!!!!
And, btw, i do not actually believe abortion should be made illegal, but only because there are too many people in this world, and due to the stupidity of some women, prolly should be kept legal to control more stupid people from being born. And of course, it must always be legal in certain circumstances.
I just wish people would stop denying that they are, in fact, killing someone.
Oh, and I'm not against the term Feminazi either. There are SOOOOOOOO many "women" (actually male wannabes) who fit that description!

I agree with you Miss MacPhisto. It took a lot of guts to say that. Good for you. I believe abortion IS killing someone, and just because so many people don't want to hear that because they want to do it anyway and not feel guilty doesn't change the fact that a life has been ended. Leaving it up to 'each person's indivudual conscience' doesn't work, because some people have no conscience. I heard about a guy on the news who killed a dude for his jacket, and said it shouldn't be against the law, because in HIS OPINION and his conscience he hadn't done anything wrong. That is the type of mentality the 'anything goes, if it feels good, do it' philosophy breeds.

Yes, a baby may have been created by a 'stupid' woman and some irresponsible asshole she was with, but that is not the baby's fault, it's BOTH their faults, and it does not deserve to die for someone's stupidity, or their convenience and selfishness. My philosophy is not a political or a religious one, it's common sense- it's alive, you kill it, it's dead, therefore murder, therefore wrong, end of story. Now I know I will be flamed, but I don't care, there is nothing I feel so strongly about. Never has something that should be so clearly and obviously wrong justified by so many for such shallow reasons. I actually knew a couple who got rid of a baby because the pregnancy would interfere with a cruise they had planned. With parents like that, maybe the kid was better off dead. Sad.

Too many people use it as a form of birth control too. Another reason I oppose it is because there really is no good reason for one except rape, incest or threat to mother's life. Those combined account for about 2% of all abortions in this country, which means 98% of the babies killed are eliminated for purely selfish reasons, such as, girl stops taking pills thinking if she gets pregnant her boyfriend will marry her. She finds out he's pissed and ditches her, then all of a sudden she's this 'pitiful' and 'helpless' girl in 'trouble' with nowhere to turn but the abortion clinic. That's the kind of crap that sickens me.

As a woman, I know that there are only about 2 or 3 days a month you can get pregnant, and in that time, you can use birth control, or self control. Because I know how actually hard it is to get pregnant when you are trying makes me LESS sympathetic towards 'unplanned pregnancies' I agree with Fred Durst on this one, though I hate his music. A girl got pregnant by him, and though the didn't like her or want to marry her, he vowed to support the child. He said, 'sometimes the best things in life are not 'planned' but the surprises! I believe people could make do with the baby if they really wanted to, unless they are too greedy and selfish make room for the life they have created.

I also find it interesting that some of the same people who cry 'choice' for abortion want to deny others choices such as gun ownership,(no I do not like guns just making a point here) not wearing a seat belt and smoking. If a choice is a choice it should go for everything or nothing or it's irrelevant. Or, you could just call your 'choice' by its real name - infanticide!

Whew. Thank goodness for the subject of this thread, or I know I would find myself called the 'n' word, which is usually overused an all-purpose putdown for those who can't think of anything else to say, and no it is not funny.


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Old 03-28-2002, 09:44 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Elvis:
I dont care about liberals,
I dont care about consveratives,
I think they're all a bunch of jackasses just trying to shove their fucking view down other peoples throats.

I totally agree with this statement! It's true! My opnions come from what I think and feel, and are not influenced by any politician or ideology. I have some beliefs on both 'sides' but that doesn't matter to me, I am what I am, and I do not follow any party's agenda.

Please don't ban me until I have uploaded the rest of my pics *ducks, runs*

[This message has been edited by *Stormy* (edited 03-28-2002).]
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Old 03-28-2002, 02:32 PM   #24
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I'm not going to flame you Stormy, honest! I really respect your beliefs but if you have never gone through this, you can't assume what someone is feeling in this situation or what their motivation might be. While I don't approve of abortion as a method of birth control, I think taking that choice away from women is a very scary thing to imagine. It won't make women any more likely to use birth control or behave responsibly. It will cause the births of many, many unwanted, unloved children and cause desperate women to risk their lives getting illegal abortions.

Quote:
I believe abortion IS killing someone, and just because so many people don't want to hear that because they want to do it anyway and not feel guilty doesn't change the fact that a life has been ended.
Don't ever assume that a woman feels no guilt after an abortion. Some women are haunted by what they have done for the rest of their lives. That doesn't mean they regret their decision, but the guilt for most women is quite intense.


Quote:
Yes, a baby may have been created by a 'stupid' woman and some irresponsible asshole she was with, but that is not the baby's fault, it's BOTH their faults, and it does not deserve to die for someone's stupidity, or their convenience and selfishness.
To assume that every abortion is the result of a stupid woman and an irresponsible asshole is just an amazing generalization that I find really insulting. Not every woman with an unplanned pregnancy is stupid and why would you assume that the man is irresponsible or an asshole? I happen to know more than one man who begged their girlfriends not to have an abortion, trying to take full responsiblity.

Quote:
Too many people use it as a form of birth control too.
This I strongly agree with.

Quote:
As a woman, I know that there are only about 2 or 3 days a month you can get pregnant, and in that time, you can use birth control, or self control. Because I know how actually hard it is to get pregnant when you are trying makes me LESS sympathetic towards 'unplanned pregnancies'
Well, technically yes but some women are only fertile for only 24 hours, others for 2,3 or 4 days. Unless you are willing to chart your cycle, which is very time consuming, you really can't pinpoint exactly when you are fertile, especially in your teens or early 20's when we tend to be irregular. Women who use natural family planning will tell that it takes quite a few cycles and lots of instruction before you become familiar enough with your body to pinpoint your fertile days. Throw in the fact that some women don't ovulate every month and there you go. A less than exact science.

Birth control fails. Even women who take the pill correctly have gotten pregnant. Condoms break, IUD's fail, the Depo shot doesn't work for every woman. Should she be blamed in that instance? And don't assume that it will never happen to you. I don't know your circumstances but just let me say, you don't know what you will feel until it happens.

I had to sit in an abortion clinic very recently with a close relative who had been celibate for 3 years and got pregnant the very first time she had sex again, using a condom. They were both responsible, used birth control and she still ended up pregnant.

Quote:
I believe people could make do with the baby if they really wanted to, unless they are too greedy and selfish make room for the life they have created.
I don't even know where to start on this one. A baby is not something you "make do" with. If a child is not wanted, he/she will sense this. Some people think that if you feed and clothe them, everything will be alright. A child needs more than material things and if a women is not mature enough or yes, too selfish, to give this love to a child, she should consider another option. How would you feel if your parents told you they never wanted you but thought it was their responsibility to "make do" with you because they had unprotected sex? A child should be brought into this world out of love, not obligation.

Not everyone who makes the decision to have sex is mature enough to deal with the responsibility of a child. When faced with a 13 year old girl who is pregnant, do you tell her to "make do" with what she's done? What 13 year old is capable of raising a child or even taking care of herself properly during a pregnancy? I was 18 and married when I had my first son and I was far from ready.

I know there are other choices besides abortion, adoption being my personal preference. But, I have seen this issue from all sides and I can't honestly say that I wouldn't choose abortion if I was faced with an unplanned pregnancy. I'm really setting myself up for a flame by admitting that but my right to choose is something I hold very dear.

And like I said, this is not a flame, more like a rebuttal to your post. I am not pro-abortion, I'm pro-choice but I would never try to change the mind of someone who is pro-life. I just want to point out that there are 2 sides to every issue and neither side is completely right or completely wrong.

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Old 03-28-2002, 04:06 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by icelady:
I'm sorry I don't mean to be slow or stupid or anything, but I thought this was a thread about using the term "NAZI". When exactly did it become an argument on Pro-Life exactly?

Sorry just wondering. I'm playing catchup
roughly...

Discussion on the word NAZI >>> discussion of the word Feminazi >>>discussion of abortion.

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Old 03-28-2002, 04:17 PM   #26
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Miss Macphisto: don't compare killing your twin brother to abortion. It's not the same thing.

Abortion in my obition IS a choice. (both parents or just the woman, either way)
It is a possibility - and it really is the woman's body and it's her business what she decides to do. And if she chooses to do so, it's definitely safer to do it in a clinic, than some ilegal stuff that can end up with some infections or serious medical trouble.
And i for one would never call a woman who had an abortion a murderer.

Having said that, i do feel that all options must be considered (raising the baby with the father, single parenting, your family helping you, adoption, foster care...) - and the abortion should be THE last thing on the list.

ps: To keep with the thread's topic - defnitely against the term Nazi anytime.

[This message has been edited by U2girl (edited 03-28-2002).]
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Old 03-28-2002, 04:48 PM   #27
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Yeah, this topic did kinda veer off course but that's not unheard of around here. I promise this will be my last contribution to the discussion.

Stormy, I did mention adoption at the end of my post and said that it was my preferred option in an unplanned pregnancy. But, with that said, this is a topic that can be debated endlessly. It should be added to the list with religion and politics.

I would prefer to keep you as a friend rather than debate you on something we both believe in so strongly so maybe we should agree to disagree and go on to the next subject.

Love ya too Stormy
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Old 03-28-2002, 04:52 PM   #28
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oh man...I know I shouldn't do this...I know this we're way off the intended topic an that this has already been discussed at great lengths here, and everybody has already made up their minds, etc, but.....
I'm curious, U2girl and anyone else, why you think abortion should be THE last choice if it is just a choice and never murder? If it's her body and her business, why shouldn't it be the first choice?
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Old 03-28-2002, 05:03 PM   #29
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Originally posted by Bono's American Wife:

Stormy, I did mention adoption at the end of my post and said that it was my preferred option in an unplanned pregnancy. But, with that said, this is a topic that can be debated endlessly. It should be added to the list with religion and politics.

I would prefer to keep you as a friend rather than debate you on something we both believe in so strongly so maybe we should agree to disagree and go on to the next subject.

Love ya too Stormy
Agreed. Add it to the list of taboo topics, along with Creed and hair! I should never have come to this forum. I get myself into enough trouble without issues like this.

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Old 03-28-2002, 05:14 PM   #30
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Originally posted by Spiral_Staircase:
I'm curious, U2girl and anyone else, why you think abortion should be THE last choice if it is just a choice and never murder? If it's her body and her business, why shouldn't it be the first choice?
I think i understand what you mean - are you thinking "if it's a choice, why shouldn't they just go for it right away?"

Who's to know how many of the women who do abortions consider the other options (and possibly don't go through with the abortion) and how many initially go for that choice?

It should be the last choice because there are multiple choices, and all should be considered. That's what i meant.
The abortion may not be the choice used, but it's there.
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