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Old 04-19-2005, 05:42 AM   #16
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Many people do believe that New Labour would benefit from Tony Blair stepping down, I am not so sure myself. Yes, Tony Blair lost a lot of support over the whole Iraq debacle, but he is also the one who, along with Gordon Brown (our Chancellor of the Exchequer), spear-headed the political vision that was 'New Labour'. By inference, Gordon Brown would be his successor, and, even though I strongly approve of Brown and his policies, I can't see him getting the votes. He simply does not possess the same charisma as Tony Blair (even though I can't say he has much charisma, though the public seem to differ on that) and is too rigid in some instances. Surprisingly, he is still seen as 'the nasty one' from the pair.

Again, this is not what I believe. I believe Gordon Brown is a better politician and has more integrity than Tony Blair will ever have, but I simply can't see him as a winning ticket.

Returning to the concept of New Labour. Yes, traditionally they did indeed stand for being left of centre, but that is all but gone. Is it not perfectly clear that Blair's brilliant political manuevering was pushing himself, and the party, so right of centre they essentially evicted the Tories from their former ground? No wonder the Tories were all but extinct for two terms. Make no mistake about it - New Labour isn't, nor ever has been, left of centre, though they have exhbited a more heightened social awareness than the Tories, who, with their short-lived Compassionate Conservatism, demonstrated just how well they still adhere to that Thatcherite adage 'there is no such thing as society'. Tony Blair is simply a more socially aware version of John Major, and, slowly yet surely, he has been losing more and more of what Labour used to stand for. If you think about it, the public figureheads which stand for the former working class socialism, or the traditional Old Labour values, are now caricatures; John Prescott (you could say our vice president) is a joke who can't string a coherent sentence together and punches people in the face when the going gets tough. What a statesman. Red Ken Livingstone, the mayor of London, sold out and is now suddenly Tony Blair's political soul mate.

As a socialist, I find Tony Blair's vision of New Labour disheartening, but I do think the party will go back to its roots eventually, at least that is my hope. For the moment, they ahve done a great job with the economy and have improved many aspects of public services. Also, I can't believe things are that bad to get the Tories in. What a nightmare that would be.

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Old 04-19-2005, 06:46 AM   #17
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I agree with everthing you said, Anthony

I really dread to think of the consequences if the Conservatives got in

and I would just have to throw my telly out of the window. there is no way I would be able to stomach seeing that creature of the night all the time
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Old 04-19-2005, 07:36 AM   #18
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as for media coverage in the US, there has been slim to none so thanks for the cheat sheet finance guy. It will become important to us when/if Blair is reelelcted.

Besides the reasons listed above, I think we're missing some coverage because it's not long and drawn out like the presidential election. We start having primaries nearly a year before the general election so you have to fill many more hours. I wish we could have the UK system where the start and end of the election process is short.
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Old 04-19-2005, 11:42 AM   #19
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The Scottish Parliament is governed by a coalition between Labour and the Lib Dems.


Tuition fees :
GONE in Scotland, still there in England.

Top up fees :
BLOCKED in Scotland by Liberal Democrats, imposed by Labour in England.

Free personal care for the elderly :
delivered in Scotland, attacked by Labour ministers in England as "crazy" - but thousands of Scottish pensioners are now benefiting from the security and dignity this policy provides

Free Travel for older people :
delivered in Scotland, only now considered four years later in England.

Free eye & dental checks :
on the way in Scotland, but not in England.

The threat of more nuclear power:
effectively challenged by Liberal Democrats. The Executive (the Scottish Parliament) will oppose any nuclear power stations until a safe storage option for radioactive waste has been found

Healthier school meals:
Scottish school meals described as ‘light years’ ahead of England.

The Liberal Democrats are PROVING to be succesful in Scotland, they're making a real, positive improvement to the lives of people in Scotland. now people south of the border need to put their faith in them. They, to use their slogan for this election, are indeed "the real alternative". They are DELIVERING on their manifesto commitments north of the border and unlike Blair will deliver south of the border too.

fed up with people in England saying that the Lib Dems' policies are unrealistic - they're working up here, they'll work down there too!!
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Old 04-19-2005, 11:45 AM   #20
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Thanks for that Party Political broadcast Ewen.

Maybe in fairness we should ask a Conservative supporter to give us the benefit of their views (looks like there aren't any on here though)
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Old 04-19-2005, 11:48 AM   #21
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Old 04-19-2005, 12:01 PM   #22
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I am definitely leaning more and more towards the lib dems. I think Charles Kennedy is honest and trustworthy, and would love to see him and his party given the chance to prove themselves in England

Unfortunately, it's looking more and more like another labour landslide
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Old 05-02-2005, 09:31 AM   #23
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well, this thread had dropped to page 7, which says a lot about british ambivalence towards politics . compare this to the mess that was interference when there was an american election!! I know that there are a lot more americans on this site, but it's still a pity.

I realised the other day that I'm not going to be able to vote, which I am incredibly annoyed about. I'm going to be away, and am to late to register for postal voting

but I have been interested watching all the debate unfold. Did anyone here see question time featuring all 3 party leaders last thursday? I missed Charles Kennedy, but caught Michael Howard and Tony Blair. Michael Howard revealed himself to be even more of a moron that I thought (which is saying something) by stating that he would have gone to war had he been in Tony Blair's position, and even if he had known in advance that there had been no WMD . He also freely admitted that if he got into power that he would pull out of the geneva convention

tony Blair just reeled out the same old that we've been hearing for the past god knows how long.

If anyone saw Charles Kennedy on this programme I'd be interested to hear how he did
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Old 05-02-2005, 10:46 AM   #24
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I love it how the British media is painting it as if the election was four days ago, as opposed four days 'to' go, already going into depth as to why Michael Howard and the Kennedy failed so miserably.

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Old 05-02-2005, 10:51 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
I love it how the British media is painting it as if the election was four days ago, as opposed four days 'to' go, already going into depth as to why Michael Howard and the Kennedy failed so miserably.

Ant.


i wish i were over there. would love to watch the wheels of democracy spinning in a different venue.
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Old 05-02-2005, 11:13 AM   #26
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i wish i were over there. would love to watch the wheels of democracy spinning in a different venue.
Strangely enough, I found the US elections more engrossing. I guess its times like these you really do miss the American media. Funny.

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Old 05-02-2005, 12:52 PM   #27
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Strangely enough, I found the US elections more engrossing. I guess its times like these you really do miss the American media. Funny.

Ant.


i remember the 2001 UK elections, and they were relatively drama free as it seemed obvious that Blair was going to win in a cakewalk. i think there were some moments of drama -- i remember cameras catching a woman having some sort of a breakdown in front of Blair, about hospitals and such, as he tried to do the calm, "i hear what you're saying, and i understand your concern," thing, and she kept on repeating, "but you people never do anything."

that was pretty cool.

to be honest, i'd rather have a calm process than the apocalyptic, good vs. evil showdowns the presidential elections have devolved into. the narrative, now, is about "the narrative" -- the horserace, who's up and who's down, and who said what and the endless, endless speculation, spinning, and punditry provided by not one, not two, but THREE 24/7 news networks.

also, the US president is more powerful politically in the US than the PM is in the UK -- so i think that there is more at stake in the US due to this fact.
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Old 05-03-2005, 09:40 AM   #28
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Originally posted by bammo2
well, this thread had dropped to page 7, which says a lot about british ambivalence towards politics . compare this to the mess that was interference when there was an american election!! I know that there are a lot more americans on this site, but it's still a pity.

I realised the other day that I'm not going to be able to vote, which I am incredibly annoyed about. I'm going to be away, and am to late to register for postal voting

but I have been interested watching all the debate unfold. Did anyone here see question time featuring all 3 party leaders last thursday? I missed Charles Kennedy, but caught Michael Howard and Tony Blair. Michael Howard revealed himself to be even more of a moron that I thought (which is saying something) by stating that he would have gone to war had he been in Tony Blair's position, and even if he had known in advance that there had been no WMD . He also freely admitted that if he got into power that he would pull out of the geneva convention

tony Blair just reeled out the same old that we've been hearing for the past god knows how long.

If anyone saw Charles Kennedy on this programme I'd be interested to hear how he did
You can watch it on the web here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/question_time/

Kennedy was on first.
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Old 05-03-2005, 04:20 PM   #29
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Blair will stay in office and

60+ % of the people do not want him.

I think the UK needs elction reform.
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Old 05-03-2005, 04:26 PM   #30
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Originally posted by deep
Blair will stay in office and

60+ % of the people do not want him.

I think the UK needs elction reform.
Or better party leaders. I think Canada is in a similar situation.

Either way, parliamentary democracy certainly has its downside, as you don't get to directly elect your leaders.

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