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Old 02-26-2004, 01:10 PM   #121
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I haven't seen it yet, either, but just from the previews, I know it's going to be awfully violent...but that's the point, I think. A crucifixion is not a pretty sight. Just as you can't make a movie about the Holocaust without the brutality of that time period, you can't make a movie about Jesus' death without the brutality of that time period.

My dad says that perhaps that violence will serve to show everybody just what we all do to each other every single day, with the killing and the discrimination and the cruelty and all that other stuff-maybe it'd wake people up and make them say, "Enough's enough".

Angela
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Old 02-26-2004, 01:10 PM   #122
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I am finding that I want to read the discussion in this thread more than I want to go see the movie (does this make me a bad conservative Christian?). Will I see it? Someday (movie nights are a rare commodity and used wisely), but most likely a rental.

Keep up the great discussion folks.
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Old 02-26-2004, 01:12 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
My dad says that perhaps that violence will serve to show everybody just what we all do to each other every single day, with the killing and the discrimination and the cruelty and all that other stuff-maybe it'd wake people up and make them say, "Enough's enough".
A very good thought.
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Old 02-26-2004, 01:53 PM   #124
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Well Gibson isn't the first to show Judas in a sympathetic way... any good U2 fan knows that...


i'm gonna try to get in to see the movie this weekend... if i can find a showing that isn't sold out, that is. i'll save any other comments until that time
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Old 02-26-2004, 02:15 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
I haven't seen it yet, either, but just from the previews, I know it's going to be awfully violent...but that's the point, I think. A crucifixion is not a pretty sight. Just as you can't make a movie about the Holocaust without the brutality of that time period, you can't make a movie about Jesus' death without the brutality of that time period.

My dad says that perhaps that violence will serve to show everybody just what we all do to each other every single day, with the killing and the discrimination and the cruelty and all that other stuff-maybe it'd wake people up and make them say, "Enough's enough".

Angela
Good points. You're right, a crucifixion is just about the most brutal form of execution ever devised. You don't get the context of the Crucifixion without the torture and and the agony involved. However I don't know that it's necessary to watch ten-minute torture sequences to grasp the message of Christ's Crucifixion and Resurrection and the importance of this to Christian teaching. Passion, or suffering, is relevant to practice of the Christian faith and I don't mean to knock it. I just don't want to be put on a guilt trip if I choose not to see this movie. At the very least it should be a choice.
And I think your father is right Angela. We need to think about what we do to each other every day. All the killings, atrocities and other evils going on every day should make us try to think about ways to stop the evils. Of course there's no way to get rid of evil. It's part of being human to have evil in the world. But that doesn't mean don't fight it.
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Old 02-26-2004, 04:09 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
Good points. You're right, a crucifixion is just about the most brutal form of execution ever devised. You don't get the context of the Crucifixion without the torture and and the agony involved.
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
However I don't know that it's necessary to watch ten-minute torture sequences to grasp the message of Christ's Crucifixion and Resurrection and the importance of this to Christian teaching. Passion, or suffering, is relevant to practice of the Christian faith and I don't mean to knock it. I just don't want to be put on a guilt trip if I choose not to see this movie. At the very least it should be a choice.
That makes sense. I do see what you're saying there. And you're right, you shouldn't have to be made to feel guilty if you don't go see this movie. This is heavy stuff, so I can see why it might make some people wary of seeing the movie.

Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
And I think your father is right Angela. We need to think about what we do to each other every day. All the killings, atrocities and other evils going on every day should make us try to think about ways to stop the evils. Of course there's no way to get rid of evil. It's part of being human to have evil in the world. But that doesn't mean don't fight it.
Precisely. And thanks, nbcrusader.

Angela
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Old 02-26-2004, 04:21 PM   #127
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A few people I know refuse to see it. Not b/c of the violence, but b/c they don't want their perception of Jesus tainted by a movie. It's a valid excuse. I know after I see it, I'll probably always picture Jesus in my mind the way he looked in the movie.
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Old 02-26-2004, 05:44 PM   #128
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I don't know if this has already been brought up..I'm too lazy to look through the thread

But I was reading this article today about Sister Emmerich and her possible influence on Mel/this movie. I'm not posting this as any sort of endorsement of her, just for possible interest. Of course this is just one article, I'm sure there are plenty of other sources available. There is also a link in the article to "The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ from the Meditations of Anne Catherine Emmerich".

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/140/story_14099_1.html

I know I have heard her brought up before in interviews w/ Mel Gibson, maybe even w/ Diane Sawyer... I don't recall
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Old 02-26-2004, 05:48 PM   #129
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Just a word of warning... when blood leaves your extremities (as happens when a person goes into shock) your brain is left with too little, and fainting or seizure can result. I once went into shock from seeing a violently graphic photograph in a newsmagazine while I was waiting at the bank (thankfully I was sitting down). I though I was going crazy until I found out the physiological reason behind my 'episode'. You never know how a particular image might affect you.
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Old 02-26-2004, 05:51 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally posted by pub crawler
I don't know that I'm going to see the movie, as from what I've read and heard, it sounds as though most of the violence inflicted on Christ in this film is, in effect, gratuitous. It sounds as though the movie is gory well beyond reason.

Chuck Smith, a well-known and influential evangelical Christian pastor from Orange County, CA, gave a positive review of the movie, but even he had the following to say: "I do think that the violence could have been overplayed. I don't know that Scripture supports the amount of violence that we saw. Also, such things as the taunting of Judas Iscariot by the children ... the Bible doesn't have this."
It's hard to judge when I haven't seen the film...for all I know it could be overplayed...but I have to wonder at comments like these. As many posters have already pointed out, flogging and cruxifiction are horrible, horrible punishments. Do people believe that because it was Jesus and because it was in the Bible, that it was somehow cleaner? Less violent?

People proudly put crosses up on churches, in their homes, around their neck. People were nailed to crosses, people died on them. Jesus was one of those people. Shouldn't Christians know what that really involved...?

Of course, I'm not advocating everyone *must* see this film to be religiously complete or anything. And I haven't seen it and I may walk out agreeing that it is too violent. I'm approaching this from more of a historical viewpoint than a religious one. It just reminds me of But I do remember people saying to me after Braveheart (another Gibson film bashed for it's copious bloodletting) "I don't even think people really did that to each other." What do you think a sword does to flesh when you hack it into someone? Since time began, we have been finding hideous ways to kill each other--and the old thought was that the longer it took, the better. And part of me does feel that this is an important film in that respect, as Moonlight Angel posted.
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Old 02-26-2004, 05:54 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvsGirl41
People were nailed to crosses, people died on them. Jesus was one of those people. Shouldn't Christians know what that really involved...?
Do you think it's necessary to watch what has been called "the most violent film of all time" to comprehend the horror?

Do you need a re-enactment of the Holocaust gas chambers to comprehend the horror there?

I say no. We are rational, adult people. For those of us who have a medical/biological background, we know very well what happens to a body in shock. I don't need to see a movie to know what happened to Jesus.
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Old 02-26-2004, 06:25 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Do you need a re-enactment of the Holocaust gas chambers to comprehend the horror there?
Well, we certainly have pictures and documentaries that show the graphic details of the Holocaust. If we were left with only a written description, we would probably have more Holocaust deniers. Same for a current example - I doubt we could fully grasp the horror of 9/11 based on a written description. Watching the video draws an entirely different response.

I think the idea that someone would voluntarily die on our behalf is really beyond our full comprehension. The graphic depiction may close that gap.
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Old 02-26-2004, 06:26 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Do you think it's necessary to watch what has been called "the most violent film of all time" to comprehend the horror?

Do you need a re-enactment of the Holocaust gas chambers to comprehend the horror there?

I say no. We are rational, adult people. For those of us who have a medical/biological background, we know very well what happens to a body in shock. I don't need to see a movie to know what happened to Jesus.
People can hear statistics about the Holocaust and everything, people can hear descriptions of the crucifixion, and be shocked. But putting a human face on these incidents-that really hits home. When a person sees a family being led off to the gas chambers in a movie depicting, it makes them think, "What if that had been my family?" And that could make them even more dedicated to making sure this never happens again.

Besides, obviously there aren't any pictures or film reels of the crucifixion, so I'll go with the Holocaust here-what exactly would be the difference between seeing a movie showing those horrors and the pictures that are displayed in museums, history books, websites, etc., or the film clips from that time period?

If you don't want to see what happened to Jesus, then don't watch the movie.

Angela
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Old 02-26-2004, 06:40 PM   #134
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I think you can tell what I think of this movie by my sig.

This is definitely an eye opener. It will proabably dispose of the many "passive" christians and make them conscious of the true sacrifice behind our salvation.
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Old 02-26-2004, 07:18 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
If you don't want to see what happened to Jesus, then don't watch the movie.
I think that's a very simplistic answer.

There are people who really can't stand violent films. My mother was thinking about watching the movie, but after a colleague saw it, he told her what it entailed and she said she would probably feel sick over it. So, she's not going. It has nothing to do with not "wanting" to see it, but it's simply too gruesome for everyone.
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