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Old 02-24-2004, 04:49 PM   #76
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Here is the whole quote in context of the conversation with Gibson. Not pieces put together to make him look badly. I am one of the first on this board to cry fowl when I think someone is being hateful towards those of the Jewish faith.

Shall we take all of the quotes and disect them in the contex of the entire articles incuding questions and follow up questions?
Well said, Dreadsox.

Obviously many missed the Diane Sawyer interview. It's a shame these chopped up quotes are still being passed off as concrete fact.

I was really hesitant about seeing the film (or about seeing any more of Gibson's work, for that matter) based on what I was hearing from articles...stuff like he believed his wife was going to hell, stuff about his dad's opinions, etc.

But he made it clear in the interview that he didn't share his father's beliefs about the Holocaust but that he wasn't going to go public and say his dad was a nut, because he loved his father and he wasn't going to cause a rift. We *all* have people in our family who are like this and you just avoid those issues completely. Am I right?

What alot of the anti-Semitic claims leave out is that the actress playing Mary, Maia Morgenstern, is Jewish and a native Romanian. Her father was a survivor of the Holocaust and both read the script over and saw nothing offensive. They asked that he remove the line declaring that Jesus's blood be on them and their children and he did.

His agent is also Jewish and a child of a Holocaust survivor, and received phone calls from that NYT Reporter (Fry?) demanding to know "why your defending a Holocaust denier." His agent was apparently very hurt (who wouldn't be?) and that's what prompted Gibson to make a few violent statements. It's interesting how Gibson can be labelled an anti-Semite, but these classy journalists doing the name-calling are completely condoned?

I came away from the t.v. interview convinced Gibson was devout, but not fanatic, and with the intelligence to see where the line was. I realize he's an actor and could fool me completely, but I felt he was genuine.

I should probably stress that I'm not Catholic, nor am I very religious in any way--sadly, I guess. But I hate when the media latches on stuff like this.
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Old 02-24-2004, 05:30 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Here is the whole quote in context of the conversation with Gibson. Not pieces put together to make him look badly. I am one of the first on this board to cry fowl when I think someone is being hateful towards those of the Jewish faith.



the reporter asked to clarify if Gibson believed the Holocaust happened.[Q]"I have friends and parents of friends who have numbers on their arms. The guy who taught me Spanish was a Holocaust survivor. He worked in a concentration camp in France. Yes, of course. Atrocities happened." [/Q]

I do not believe it it is anti-semitism. The danger is in once again posting piece of a quote.

Shall we take all of the quotes and disect them in the contex of the entire articles incuding questions and follow up questions?


Q: You're going to have to go on record. The Holocaust happened, right?

Gibson:
I have friends and parents of friends who have numbers on their arms. The guy who taught me Spanish was a Holocaust survivor. He worked in a concentration camp in France. Yes, of course. Atrocities happened. War is horrible. The Second World War killed tens of millions of people. Some of them were Jews in concentration camps. Many people lost their lives. In the Ukraine, several million starved to death between 1932 and 1933. During the last century, 20 million people died in the Soviet Union.


Quote:
The danger is in once again posting piece of a quote.



so, the holocast is no big deal, according to "fanatic" Gibson.
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Old 02-24-2004, 05:35 PM   #78
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I am just totally puzzled over why people are reacting so strongly towards the man. Is there something wrong for longing for the past? Why would he want a mass in Greek? He did not grow up with that. My goodness, nobody here has seen the movies. He is an anti-semite. He is a religious nutjob who wants pre-vatican two church. Why should it matter to you? Why are people so eager to rip him to shreds?

I will wait for the movie...and worry about the movie. His religious practices did not bother me before....why should they bother me now? For all the talk in this forum about religious freedom ect......

This slogan in here should be religious freedom only if you agree with mine.
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Old 02-24-2004, 05:38 PM   #79
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Originally posted by deep




Q: You're going to have to go on record. The Holocaust happened, right?

Gibson:
I have friends and parents of friends who have numbers on their arms. The guy who taught me Spanish was a Holocaust survivor. He worked in a concentration camp in France. Yes, of course. Atrocities happened. War is horrible. The Second World War killed tens of millions of people. Some of them were Jews in concentration camps. Many people lost their lives. In the Ukraine, several million starved to death between 1932 and 1933. During the last century, 20 million people died in the Soviet Union.





so, the holocast is no big deal, according to "fanatic" Gibson.
I really hope I find the article I used. If you are in a round about way accusing me of clipping this to make a point, I hope you have the decency to apologize to me if I can show that I did not CUT the quote out.
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Old 02-24-2004, 05:47 PM   #80
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Well, I found it...and the quote was not presented in the article I used in the manner you have presented it. It is semantics, however, I clipped it at what was the end of a paragraph.

What I posted was quite different from taking one sentence and presenting the one sentence to make a point.


As to the Holocaust....Deep, that is your interpretation that he trivilaized it in some way. He answered the question, he does not DENY the Holocaust.

Now, in my family, we lost family in Pogroms in Russia and in the Holocaust. My take on it is that he is NOT anti-semetic. You may have a different opinion. That is fine.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...5/110921.shtml
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Old 02-24-2004, 06:04 PM   #81
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I don't know if he is anti-Semitic or not - we cannot know that from interviews, because anybody can say anything they want in public and think something else altogether.

All I know is that this is just about the last film I want to see. I have zero interest in it, and the controversy is starting to grate too. Talk about publicity and the almightly dollar. Are we all so naive as to believe there isn't a great deal of money being made here?
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Old 02-24-2004, 06:09 PM   #82
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
I am just totally puzzled over why people are reacting so strongly towards the man. . . . . . My goodness, nobody here has seen the movies.
The strong reaction is simple - the Cross demands a response. Gibson has made a movie that in no uncertain terms places the crucifixion and resurrection right before us.

Many a critic would rather not respond to the substance of the movie as it only underscores our need of a Savior. Virulent finger pointing at Gibson may only mask the spiritual condition of the critic.
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Old 02-24-2004, 06:10 PM   #83
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I'm not accusing Gibson himself of anything. I do not think he is anti-Semitic. I heard him denouncing anti-Semitism and other forms of prejudice on a TV interview, and I think he was honest and sincere about this. If I'm guilty of anything I suppose it's guilt by association. Just because a few nut cases who oppose Vatican II and certain reforms in the church have made anti-Semitic remarks, endorsed stupid books, etc, etc, doesn't mean a particular "traditionalist" is going to do the same. It just brings back some painful memories for me. I've had some real trouble with some of these Catholics. I guess I went overboard. Sorry, I'll try to do better.
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Old 02-24-2004, 06:15 PM   #84
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guess I went overboard. Sorry, I'll try to do better.
Stop it! You did nothing wrong..LOL

I just do not understand how Gibson is a villan.

I am more interested in how his life has changed. He sounds like he has made an incredible spiritual transformation within himself. That to me is inspirational.

My closest relative became a Jehovah's Witness. It is not for me. However, this relative has goen from a druggie, alcohal abusing person, to a new person in a relatively short period of time. The beliefs of that religion do nothing for me, however, I am amazed at how this persons life has been transformed.

I guess, that is my point.

Peace
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Old 02-24-2004, 06:26 PM   #85
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I just do not understand how Gibson is a villan.
Never a true villian but he did play a bad guy in 'Payback', although a likable bad guy.
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Old 02-24-2004, 06:28 PM   #86
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Never a true villian but he did play a bad guy in 'Payback', although a likable bad guy.
No kidding...I like that movie for some reason.
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Old 02-24-2004, 06:29 PM   #87
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Quote:
I did not CUT the quote out.

I did not believe you intentionally cut it.


It appears your source had a bias in defending Gibson.

My quote was more complete, but not in the context of the entire conversation.


I did TIVO the interview with Sawyer and have watched it a couple of times. I am sure it was edited a bit.


My opinion is that Mel believes passionately in his interpretation. That is his right.

I do see some anti-Semitism in his actions and statements.

Because it is not as covert as other's actions does not mean it does not exist.


I think this film is a huge waste, bordering on pornography. It will divide people, and distract them from the teachings Jesus.
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Old 02-24-2004, 06:35 PM   #88
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Quote:
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I think this film is a huge waste, bordering on pornography.
At the risk of sounding stupid, how on earth is the film bordering on pornography? I haven't seen it (have you?) but in everything I've read about the film, I've yet to see any such criticism. Can you clarify what you meant? Thanks.
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Old 02-24-2004, 06:42 PM   #89
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The reason I might not see this movie is because it's so graphic and gory. Maybe that's the idea. But I was really shaken up and sort of freaked out after I saw "Braveheart", even though I covered my eyes during the drawing and quartering. It was Nervous System Blood and Guts Overkill. My (then) b/f said I was shaking. Not sure I want to go there again.
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Old 02-24-2004, 06:51 PM   #90
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Do you think it being so "graphic and gory" is going to add to or detract from the intention of the movie though?
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