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Old 12-09-2005, 01:54 AM   #1
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The New Masculine Ideal

Ubersexual: The New Masculine Ideal?

Link from other page stated:
Quote:
Metrosexual is so 2003. Men with properly focused masculinity, or "M-ness," have all-male best friends and worry about the world, like George Clooney and Bono. But Mr. Nice Guys they are not.

This is what you get when you log on to AOL at 1am in the morning But whatever... (actually, it's a halfway decent read )

I find it interesting that they list both Bono and George Clooney on the opening page, as both are Taurus, (like myself).

Quote:
"It was clear that men were questioning the feminization of men," said Salzman, explaining the origins of The Future of Men.

"We wrote the book to focus on the question, 'what is the byproduct of 40 years of increased rights for women?' The instability of the male role model has been a reaction to the rise of equal rights for women."
(from page 2)
You know, I actually have felt this. Personally, I do not have a role modle, save Bono, sort of. But... the notion of being uncertain about role modles, and manliness, is very hazy, in my opinion, as there is no clear cut "model" I can point to, so most of it is self-generated.

Quote:
From 'Nice Guy' to 'Integrated Male'

Robert Glover, PhD, a psychotherapist and marriage counselor, believes many men have responded to feminism by repudiating traditional masculine traits -- such as strength, assertiveness, and independence -- because they fear feminists may find those traits offensive. In an effort to please women, they transform themselves into sensitive, emotionally responsive "nice guys."

"They constantly ask themselves, 'how do I make sure the woman is happy and doesn't get upset with me?'" says Glover, author of No More Mr. Nice Guy.
Yup, I've seen this. I think the playing fields are very level, and perhaps always have been, because I hear stories (look at ZC) from both men and women about how their relationships are in trouble, etc. So both sides may be justifying themselves through relationships


Quote:
This "nice guy syndrome," as he calls it, causes men to hide their masculine nature. And this, according to Glover, often repels women.

"The man believes he's doing everything right in terms of trying to make the woman happy, but her complaint is, 'I can't trust him,'" Glover says. "Men like this are not telling the truth about themselves because they don't want to upset women, but women walk away feeling that their men have no integrity, no consistency. They say things like, 'I don't know what he's really thinking.' Women get very frustrated by males who are always seeking to please them."

Glover tries to help men become "integrated" by recognizing their own needs. And his integrated man bears an uncanny resemblance to the ubersexual.
...... I believe this is very true, in most cases. ( my initial reaction, though, was " damnstraight, that's how a lot of men and women are." )


Quote:
Honest and Direct

"The integrated man is honest," Glover said. "He's clear and direct in expressing his needs, and he makes his needs a priority. By making his needs a priority, a man doesn't need a woman to fill him up and make him happy. He is not an emotional vampire."

All this helps the integrated male develop the passion that is the hallmark of the ubersexual.

"Only when you put your priorities first can you have passion," said Glover.

Ironically, the ubersexual himself bears an uncanny resemblance to the traditional male of decades past - a more talkative Gary Cooper, perhaps, or a more emotionally expressive Humphrey Bogart. It's as though men have moved so far forward that they can afford to go backward to a time when men were distinctly manly.

The authors of The Future of Men agree.

"In many ways, [ubersexuals] mark a return to the positive characteristics of the Real Man of yesteryear (strong, resolute, fair) without having acquired too much of the self-doubt and insecurity that plagues so many of today's men," they write. "Even if they've never heard the term, they are by their very essence believers in their own M-ness."

For the most part, I agree with that, too. And also, I do feel good about myself when I think that way, and I am similar to the way they describe there. If anything, I have turned a girl off by being too "I wanna take care of you" about her, to be honest, in the past. Nevertheless, I am somewhat proud that such things are becoming more attractive, because if nothing less, I think it is simply "better" or "more correct", though I won't yet explain how I am coming to those conclusions.

I like the "positive characteristics of the Real Man of yesteryear", so to say. I think a lot of American men, especially, need those traits.


(note: I did this review as I read the article, so much obliged if you can withstand it's .... "sporadicality", as our favorite W would put it)


What y'alls think?
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Old 12-09-2005, 02:48 AM   #2
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How about just being yourself? how about that?

I'm not subcribing to any goddamn labels in living my life. Don't call me metrosexual, generation x y or z, don't call me anything or I'll rip your throat out.
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Old 12-09-2005, 04:46 AM   #3
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I think it´s a good article and points in the right direction. I don´t know what this has to do with "UberSexuality" (?). I agree with the social developments the autor has outlined. He should have added that there are many kinds of women, and all of them have their own "model of the ideal man". Some women will love to be treated good, always with respect; some will like Mr Nice Guy, others will not like it because they also like to stay by themselves (or they fall for assholes because their father is an ass). Some women will get angry when a man is aggressive, others will get angry when he´s a softie. It will not even depend just what kind of woman she is, but also on her mood! The mood of females can change quickly. One second, you´ll be her wonderful gentleman, the next you´ll just be an ass in her eyes, when you don´t even know what upsets her so much.

Sure, what Kieran says also applies, just be yourself.

So there´s two possibilities. Either you try to accomodate the woman, to make her feel good, or you just do your own thing, regardless of what she thinks about it or her reaction.

I think I am guilty of the first possibility.. if you can say there is any guilt involved with that. Because this is my outlook on life. When I meet someone new, will always try to make her feel happy. I will try to make her life to pink plush heaven. That does not mean to buy ten teddybears, but I will be nice. I can be very nice, when I want to. I know nice per se is not enough (who pointed this out in another thread? indra? I don´t remember), imo, the person I love has the RIGHT to be treated with all nicety I can manage or think of.

There are principles. When I love someone, I will respect her, and I also expect that respect in return. And you better be sensible about it, because I am. I will try to make her feel good, whenever I can, whenever I have the inner power to do so. When she asks for something, I will try and find a possibility. That´s part of the "work" in a relationship.

When I am out of love, I will act very different - give the same amount of respect back that is thrown at me. I won´t try to make anyone feel particularly good, why should I? I´ll still say the truth (because there´s nothing I despise more than lying, and be it for little, unimportant matters - you have 100% of my trust until I find out about your first lie).

There´s an inner and an outer circle. If you (fig.) are part of my inner circle, you can have everything from me, and I mean everything. Just like my family. When you disappoint me, display your disrespect or else, you fall out of that circle, and I will treat you just like any other guy.

I didn´t teach myself to be nice - but a very long term girlfriend taught me. I didn´t learn to be very honest and opened by myself. I didn´t learn to put emphasis on positivity instead of :fu: mode by myself. I can be a terrible ego asshole.. ok maybe I was a little nice from the start.. but most of my personality got serious input by other persons!

I´m not going to change my views. If someone is too wrapped up in his/her ego to accept being nice as a gift, I can´t help them. I also can be rude. Usually on purpose and in return.

Does it help you to understand me when I tell you that I grew up with an extreme feminist? I do have a cool sister who laughs about pseudo-independent women. Believe it or not, she´s so damn eloquent, she has opened my eyes on a few issues (sexism for example). And she is a very, very natural person. She´s not diplomatic at all.. ten times less than me. So natural and outspoken, without the need to display anything. Ohmy, she can also be rude!

Confidence is important. Being humble is important. Respect and integrity count a lot. When you find the right mix in every situation, congratulations.... I am trying.
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Old 12-09-2005, 04:57 AM   #4
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^

That was eloquent and honest and rang surprisingly close to home.
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Old 12-09-2005, 08:29 AM   #5
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I hear you, hip hop.


B oth my mother and stepmother are very independant women. (Lets just say they are both Sagitarians). I'm sure that has effected how I perceive relationships and treat them, but most of all, I wonder if it makes me want a closer relationship becuase I've never really had one of thosein any part of my life.

Of course, I have a lot of inbred independance, too... but anyway....


This article was interesting, because I was expecting some empty lines about a new "trend" - as soon as I saw buzzwords like metrosexual, or ubersexual and the likes....but it turned out to be fairly interesting.



Quote:
Honest and Direct

"The integrated man is honest," Glover said. "He's clear and direct in expressing his needs, and he makes his needs a priority. By making his needs a priority, a man doesn't need a woman to fill him up and make him happy. He is not an emotional vampire."

All this helps the integrated male develop the passion that is the hallmark of the ubersexual.

"Only when you put your priorities first can you have passion," said Glover.
I don't quite get that. I don't understand how passion is being used there...

However, I've been thinking lately about this: Why women might be attracted to men who don't need them. Perhaps there is some of the challenge of making him a little more dependant upon her, but also, if a man doesn't need a woman, it shows a different kind of strength. Perhaps also a sign of being secularly successful, or properly strong enough to be successful in the world.

I don't know, just some passing thoughts.
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Old 12-09-2005, 08:31 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kieran McConville
How about just being yourself? how about that?

I'm not subcribing to any goddamn labels in living my life. Don't call me metrosexual, generation x y or z, don't call me anything or I'll rip your throat out.
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Old 12-09-2005, 08:56 AM   #7
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Yeah, I'd say being yourself is a good idea

Being something other than that to try to "win friends and influence people", or to get laid or whatever is not an honest happy way to live your life. Be a good and decent guy, don't be a sexist pig - be honest and don't screw around with a woman's feelings, and most women will respond in kind. Some won't of course but that's their problem, it works the other way for men who don't respond to good and decent women as well for whatever reason.
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Old 12-09-2005, 09:17 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kieran McConville
How about just being yourself? how about that?

I'm not subcribing to any goddamn labels in living my life. Don't call me metrosexual, generation x y or z, don't call me anything or I'll rip your throat out.


to be honest, my initial reaction to that was ->



I didn't really even think about it as trying to define people, or lable them. Labeling others in catagories like that never really croesses my mind, though I see where you are coming from.

......

And I suppose this is common for FYM, but I see a lot of people have brought some personal baggage to this subject It's funny, because I don't usualy start threads in FYM, but doing so puts things in a somewhat different perspective.

=

As far as "being yourself".....
I think that is very important, too.

I find intriguing as to how different people have different levels of thought on what is being oneself, though. It know a lot of people who claim to be themselves, yet also associate strongly with a certain group or trend in modern times.


=


There is still an issue of male rolemodles........
I find it difficult to point one out, but I suppose that comes from limited exposure to people that I would consider for the title.
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Old 12-09-2005, 09:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Yeah, I'd say being yourself is a good idea

Being something other than that to try to "win friends and influence people", or to get laid or whatever is not an honest happy way to live your life. Be a good and decent guy, don't be a sexist pig - be honest and don't screw around with a woman's feelings, and most women will respond in kind. Some won't of course but that's their problem, it works the other way for men who don't respond to good and decent women as well for whatever reason.
What part of the article, (honest question), lead you to say what you said about "win friends and influence people"?

Or was that an offshoot of someone else's post?
Just curious.

Quote:
"... mark a return to the positive characteristics of the Real Man of yesteryear (strong, resolute, fair) without having acquired too much of the self-doubt and insecurity that plagues so many of today's men"
If you can squint and look through the blinding buzzwords they've thrown out in that article, I think, Mrs. Springsteen, that there is actually some semblence to what you are addressing in your post. And I agree, believe it or not, with you on how you feel about men. I see a lot of guys, and gals, that are very misguided.... some intentionally, and usually worse, some very unintentionall so

I think people of todays America need to be more honest, and more accountible intergrity-wise. Emotional integrity included.



=

I also found it interesting how they made a connection between economic stability and the relative solidarity of the male image in a society. Never thought about it that way.... but it makes sense.
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Old 12-09-2005, 01:48 PM   #10
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UberBeavers > Ubersexuals.
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Old 12-09-2005, 02:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Yeah, I'd say being yourself is a good idea

Being something other than that to try to "win friends and influence people", or to get laid or whatever is not an honest happy way to live your life. Be a good and decent guy, don't be a sexist pig - be honest and don't screw around with a woman's feelings, and most women will respond in kind. Some won't of course but that's their problem, it works the other way for men who don't respond to good and decent women as well for whatever reason.


I must stand before the Lord and give an account. No amount of masks or fake personalitities will cover up what is seen.

Be yourself!
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Old 12-09-2005, 08:06 PM   #12
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I can't speak for myself but I guess it was all the stuff about 'metrosexuals' that tipped me off. I know it was all the 'rage' a year or two ago, but come on

do these people actually exist?

It's like all that crap we used to hear about how all people of a certain age are gen X and think like THIS, and all people of another certain age are gen Y and think like THAT...

i don't have a charitable view of that stuff.
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Old 12-09-2005, 08:08 PM   #13
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Shit. I mean I can't speak for anyone else. Obviously I can speak for myself.

hAHAHHAHAHAHAH!!!
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Old 12-09-2005, 08:25 PM   #14
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Metrosexuals are the dandys of the age.
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