The Hoohaa Monologues

[BVS]

But there is still no connection between what you said and I what said about class, because of this: just because a parent doesn't want his/her child to see that word in public doesn't mean that parent is going to tell lies about body parts or make up words for it.

Then what are they worried about? Your definition of class says it's not alright, while other's definition of class says they are proud to be a woman and that they indeed have a vagina and there isn't anything to hide or be ashamed of.

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

BTW, I don´t think class has anything to do with selective ignorance.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Well I was raised to put stock in modesty, class, and decorum- and I highly value all three. And by parents who come from a more traditional and conservative generation. But I still feel the way I do about that marquee and about how I feel it is somehow shaming to women to have an issue with it-and that you should be honest and straightforward with kids about their bodies and sex and sexuality.That is the optimum way as I see it to work towards open and honest communication, self respect, and respect for their bodies and their sexuality. In an age appropriate way, and in a way that's appropriate for the individuality of your child.

There's nothing wrong with my values, and I say that in all modesty In fact I think they're pretty damn good.

 

[Liesje]

I understand the point behind modesty, yadda yadda, but this is a play! This is art. Since when do we expect art to be so innocent and modest? Not to mention, this play has been around for a while, this isn't anything new.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

what ammuses me the most is that this theatre company probably picked the silliest name for vagina they could think of and are pretty much just mocking the people who complained about the play's title and these parents are just too stupid to realize it.

perhaps sarcasm isn't dead yet

 

[80sU2isBest]

BTW, I don´t think class has anything to do with selective ignorance.

This should be good; please show me in anything that I have written about this any evidence that I am choosing to be ignorant about anything.

 

[sulawesigirl4]

Over at salon.com there was this letter in the comments section about this incident which I found interesting.

Don't get your panties in a bunch. "Hoohaa" is an obvious publicity gimmick by the local theater.

The author and licensing agency are not so dumb that they didn't foresee objections to public displays of the word "Vagina," whether from members of local communities or local advertising venues.

The authorized alternate title, under which "The Vagina Monologues" has been advertised countless times, is "The V Monologues," with an artfully stylized V (think pubis and use your imagination) provided by the licensing company.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

So whenever that play is advertised anywhere they don't even use the word vagina? Isn't that contrary to the whole point of the play?

 

[Vincent Vega]

Isn't the word vagina nicer than a stylized V?

 

[sulawesigirl4]

I'm not saying I prefer it one way or the other. I just think it is interesting that the owners chose NOT to use the option already available to them.

 

[BVS]

I'm sure people would have still raised a stink about V as well.

 

[BonosSaint]

Always amazing to me when people are offended by the proper name for something. Not as amazing though as when grownups use childish terms for them in all seriousness. I never quite take the grownup seriously after that. I may use the vulgarisms, but I don't use the silly shit.

I was taught all the proper words very young. My parents would have thought it was ridiculous to teach me something different. Apparently though I was the first kid to know in school and I got in trouble from the other kids' parents for passing on how the babies get made, lol. Don't think it traumitized me any. Although apparently it traumatized the other kids.

Guess which kids got knocked up later?

 

[trevster2k]

most people of my generation and previous will have different values and beliefs concerning this than more recent generations.

Please speak for yourself, I am two years younger than you and none of my peers consider this to be a problem.

We think it is bible-thumpers afraid of the devil's work again.



Flee, flee child of the devil!!

I think they ought to ban women riding white horses across the beach discussing freshness and absorbancy too. God forbid a kid asks a question about the commercial. But then again, some people would tell them some odd story instead of the truth leading to phone calls to Sex with Sue Johannsan by 16 year old girls asking if you stand on your head after sex will it stop you from getting pregnant or can you get pregnant from kissing.

 

[80sU2isBest]

We think it is bible-thumpers afraid of the devil's work again.



Flee, flee child of the devil!!

I see that you graduated from Juvenile Behavior 101 along with Browneyed Boy. Who were your professors - Beavis and Butthead?

I think they ought to ban women riding white horses across the beach discussing freshness and absorbancy too. God forbid a kid asks a question about the commercial. But then again, some people would tell them some odd story instead of the truth leading to phone calls to Sex with Sue Johannsan by 16 year old girls asking if you stand on your head after sex will it stop you from getting pregnant or can you get pregnant from kissing.

You're using the same faulty logic that others have: you assume that just because some people consider certain things inappropriate for public display, that those same people wouldn't have honest and frank discussions with their kids about sex and the human body. There is no correlation.

 

[anitram]

So I ask again, if they are having these honest and frank discussions, why would they care if their child saw the word vagina on a theatre marquee? Presumably, these honest and frank discussions would have concluded in the parent informing their "four year old" that it's not acceptable to go around saying vagina "all the time."

 

[Varitek]

I know someone of my parents' generation (around 50) who grew up isolated and didn't know the proper words for penis and vagina until she was in high school and read them in a book. When she got her period at the age of 10 she thoguht something was drastically wrong, and, embarassed, hid her underwear under her bed for several months. Luckily she got over it and is comfortable with everything (read: HER VAGINA) as an adult.

Forcing ignorance upon children isn't good for mental or physical health, I think we've established it. Making these words into a public taboo or offense encourages ignorance and shame. It's pretty simple. The same way the f word (6 letters) and n word are taboo and therefore inspire shame - except, this time, the words don't deserve to have shame around them.

Maybe you believe these words aren't appropriate in public, but another strain of argument barely touched on is that this impinges on artistic freedom - how do you reconcile that, 80s?

 

[80sU2isBest]

Maybe you believe these words aren't appropriate in public, but another strain of argument barely touched on is that this impinges on artistic freedom - how do you reconcile that, 80s?

Well, for one thing, I'm not saying that it should be illegal for them to name their play that and to put the name on a marquee so that people will able to find the play. It's just in poor taste. I know that is not a popular opinion around here, but I don't reallly care. It's just one small percentage of the 99% of my opinions that FYMers don't agree with.

But artistic freedom, eh... whatever. I think that artists should be more responsible in how they use their artistic freedom. And no, I don't hate artists...I'm a web designer/multimedia designer by trade, and a 23 year songwriter by hobby.

 

[80sU2isBest]

So I ask again, if they are having these honest and frank discussions, why would they care if their child saw the word vagina on a theatre marquee? Presumably, these honest and frank discussions would have concluded in the parent informing their "four year old" that it's not acceptable to go around saying vagina "all the time."

Call me "old fashioned", but at 4, 5 and 6 years old, I don't think my child would be ready to hear about sex, except for at the most basic level, you know, the "man and woman who are in love, get married and make a baby" level. If my young child sees that word and asks me what it is, I wouldn't be prepared to tell them.You see, as the parent, I should be able to make my own reasonable timeline for these sorts of things, and if it's being shoved in my child's path of vision, that causes me to have to confront the issue before I'm ready and before I feel my child is ready.

Also, as a parent, part of my reponsibility would be to teach my child my values, including social values. Modesty, class and decorum are very important social values for me, and I want to impart the importance of those values to my children.
I don't think a play with that title in good taste or fits any possible definition of class or decorum, so I don't want to see it. Therefore, I would not want my child to see it. It's really as simple as that.

 

[snowbunny00774]

When I was in the Louvre last year it was amazing to see the amount of classy people covering their children's eyes or avoiding some of the most famous art in the world altogether in order to avoid having to confront the issue of explaining classlessy painted and sculpted body parts, some even having overtones of sexuality. I can't imagine why they even brought them to a museum possessing such poor taste.

Unluckily for me, my own mother apparently had no modesty, class or decorum when she explained these tasteless things to me at the tender of age 6 (which incidently bored me to tears and I thought she'd never be done with the books and pictures...thinking, why oh why did I ask why the lady next door was able to have TWO babies at the same time and where do they come from anyway??). I shall ask her to aplogize to me for not imparting the importance of those values to me when I see her this weekend.


80's - you have asked many times why posters are infering that people who took issue with the marquee wouldn't explain the meaning of the word to their children. Thank you for offering yourself as an answer.

If my young child sees that word and asks me what it is, I wouldn't be prepared to tell them.

 

[indra]

Modesty, class and decorum are very important social values for me...
I don't think a play with that title in good taste or fits any possible definition of class or decorum, so I don't want to see it. Therefore, I would not want my child to see it. It's really as simple as that.

Do you really believe that all of the rest of us in this thread have no modesty, class and decorum because we can say the word vagina and not feel it's inappropriate?

I've also been wondering something else -- a while back there was a thread on asexuality and you commented that according to the website on asexuality mentioned in the initial post you would be asexual. Do you think your lack of interest in sex is part of the reason you are uncomfortable with this play and the word vagina? Do you think that this lack of interest in sex makes you more uncomfortable with the possibility of discussing sex with your child? I don't mean to be rude, but wouldn't you discussing sex be a bit like a priest discussing marriage so that would be why you don't feel comfortable doing it?

I ask this in all seriousness. I mean you've commented several times that you are of a generation that values "modesty, class and decorum" but in this thread are several of us within that same generation and although most of us are more liberal than you, I suspect none of us are major swingers or kink-meisters (well maybe just a little ), and we certainly don't seem to have the same problem with the word or with the prospect of discussing sex with children. If you've never been interested, how can you understand why a child might be?


And another question, but to anyone -- do we know the age of the child in the original story? I couldn't find any mention of it. Maybe the kid wasn't 4 years old, maybe she was 10 and had seen the word before and her parents had avoided her questions before so when she saw it on the marquee she asked her aunt. Maybe the aunt should be pissed at the parents for not telling the kid about it earlier.

 

[Axver]

What I find funniest is that this person was horrified that her niece saw the word 'vagina'. What the hell do you think your niece has, you stupid git?

 

[Vincent Vega]

Call me "old fashioned", but at 4, 5 and 6 years old, I don't think my child would be ready to hear about sex, except for at the most basic level, you know, the "man and woman who are in love, get married and make a baby" level. If my young child sees that word and asks me what it is, I wouldn't be prepared to tell them.You see, as the parent, I should be able to make my own reasonable timeline for these sorts of things, and if it's being shoved in my child's path of vision, that causes me to have to confront the issue before I'm ready and before I feel my child is ready.

Also, as a parent, part of my reponsibility would be to teach my child my values, including social values. Modesty, class and decorum are very important social values for me, and I want to impart the importance of those values to my children.
I don't think a play with that title in good taste or fits any possible definition of class or decorum, so I don't want to see it. Therefore, I would not want my child to see it. It's really as simple as that.

I can understand that you think different about it, and I accept it.

But when you say, you want to decide when it's the right time to tell your child certain words we would have to censor the cities because every now and then a word could pop up that you think your child is too young for to learn.

We don't have to pave the streets with such words, but we can't demand cities free of any words someone deems not appropriate.

There will always be something children get to know before they are old enough, so parents have to be prepared that those questions might pop up anytime.

 

[anitram]

And another question, but to anyone -- do we know the age of the child in the original story? I couldn't find any mention of it. Maybe the kid wasn't 4 years old, maybe she was 10 and had seen the word before and her parents had avoided her questions before so when she saw it on the marquee she asked her aunt. Maybe the aunt should be pissed at the parents for not telling the kid about it earlier.

Well that's been my point all along. What 4 year old can read the word "vagina" on a marquee? If she can, then she's super intelligent and should be told the meaning. And if she's 10, like you speculated, then for God's sake why hasn't anyone told her what a vagina is??

 

[sulawesigirl4]

Well that's been my point all along. What 4 year old can read the word "vagina" on a marquee? If she can, then she's super intelligent and should be told the meaning. And if she's 10, like you speculated, then for God's sake why hasn't anyone told her what a vagina is??

Actually, when I read this story on Broadsheet at salon.com the kid was quoted to be 12 years old. If that's the case, it would certainly change the whole discussion, methinks.

 

[80sU2isBest]

80's - you have asked many times why posters are infering that people who took issue with the marquee wouldn't explain the meaning of the word to their children. Thank you for offering yourself as an answer.

Maybe you need to take some reading comprehension classes.

"I wouldn't be prepared to tell them" doesn't mean I wouldn't tell my child. It means that I would be forced to talk to them before I felt it was time. I thought that was obvious from the context, especially since I then wrote:

"if it's being shoved in my child's path of vision, that causes me to have to confront the issue before I'm ready and before I feel my child is ready"

 

[Vincent Vega]

Actually, when I read this story on Broadsheet at salon.com the kid was quoted to be 12 years old. If that's the case, it would certainly change the whole discussion, methinks.

12 years. That was the age I had sex education the second time in school.

And way too many 12 year old become parents because they don't know anything about that topic, or simply don't care because they don't know enough.

I don't know if that's better.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Well that's been my point all along. What 4 year old can read the word "vagina" on a marquee? If she can, then she's super intelligent and should be told the meaning. And if she's 10, like you speculated, then for God's sake why hasn't anyone told her what a vagina is??

The reason I haven't answered the "4 year old" question you've been asking is because it's a big to-do about nothing. No, a 4 year old usually can't read. But does it really make a difference whether I typed "4 year old" or "6 year old"? A 6 year old, who can read, is too young for me to want to talk about these things, also.

 

[corianderstem]

Why does having to explain what a "vagina" is mean that you would have to have the big Sex Discussion? Couldn't you just say "it's a part of a woman's body"?

 

[80sU2isBest]

I can understand that you think different about it, and I accept it.

But when you say, you want to decide when it's the right time to tell your child certain words we would have to censor the cities because every now and then a word could pop up that you think your child is too young for to learn.

We don't have to pave the streets with such words, but we can't demand cities free of any words someone deems not appropriate.

There will always be something children get to know before they are old enough, so parents have to be prepared that those questions might pop up anytime.

Thank you for your understanding, Vincent.

Likewise I understand what you're saying, and yes, you make very valid points.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Why does having to explain what a "vagina" is mean that you would have to have the big Sex Discussion? Couldn't you just say "it's a part of a woman's body"?

Well yes, I suppose that's the way it should be done. Good point.