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Old 08-09-2014, 07:31 PM   #631
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I agree with you guys. If only that is all that needs said to those who don't believe like us, specifically I mean the religious right.


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Old 08-09-2014, 11:01 PM   #632
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Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill - Commons Debate

Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill - Commons Debate - YouTube



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Old 08-09-2014, 11:42 PM   #633
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But it'll be interesting to see how that referendum next year will go. I've a feeling that people in urban areas in Ireland are pretty much okay with it like the rest of western Europe.. but Ireland does have a fairly strong Catholic link, so I really have no clue how it'll turn out.
an interesting essay from a gay Irish conservative Catholic:

It isn’t easy being gay and Catholic | The Irish Catholic
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Old 08-10-2014, 02:45 AM   #634
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Saywha?
He was basically saying that Paul was the one who spoke on Homosexuality, not Jesus. The general thought is that Jesus came to fulfill the law, thereby "doing away with it" in a sense. Paul, however, was struggling to convince Jews (and himself)that following the old law was no longer necessary and basically the entire book of Acts deals with coming to a understanding between the two that would please Jews and convince them to convert to Christianity while also allowing Gentiles to become Christians as well.

Meanwhile, Jesus never said anything about most anything concerning the Law, especially when it comes to homosexuality. So, the question is: Do you follow Jesus' teaching (love one another as I have loved you) or Paul's (which was basically trying to rectify Christianity with the old law).
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Old 08-10-2014, 03:09 AM   #635
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He was basically saying that Paul was the one who spoke on Homosexuality, not Jesus. The general thought is that Jesus came to fulfill the law, thereby "doing away with it" in a sense. Paul, however, was struggling to convince Jews (and himself)that following the old law was no longer necessary and basically the entire book of Acts deals with coming to a understanding between the two that would please Jews and convince them to convert to Christianity while also allowing Gentiles to become Christians as well.

Meanwhile, Jesus never said anything about most anything concerning the Law, especially when it comes to homosexuality. So, the question is: Do you follow Jesus' teaching (love one another as I have loved you) or Paul's (which was basically trying to rectify Christianity with the old law).

Thank you Bono_212! I wish I had the gift of speech. Sadly, mine is the gift of gab. I didn't realize galeon girl was asking for explanation. I'm so used to forums where persons often jest. I'm new here, but I'm sure I learn the mannerisms of the regulars with time.


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Old 08-10-2014, 03:20 AM   #636
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I think GG was just being a bit sarcastic, but I figured, eh, just in case.
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Old 08-10-2014, 03:23 AM   #637
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I think GG was just being a bit sarcastic, but I figured, eh, just in case.

I appreciated your well written explanation. It's nice to know that occasionally someone understands what I'm trying to say.


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Old 08-10-2014, 08:45 AM   #638
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He was basically saying that Paul was the one who spoke on Homosexuality, not Jesus. The general thought is that Jesus came to fulfill the law, thereby "doing away with it" in a sense. Paul, however, was struggling to convince Jews (and himself)that following the old law was no longer necessary and basically the entire book of Acts deals with coming to a understanding between the two that would please Jews and convince them to convert to Christianity while also allowing Gentiles to become Christians as well.

Meanwhile, Jesus never said anything about most anything concerning the Law, especially when it comes to homosexuality. So, the question is: Do you follow Jesus' teaching (love one another as I have loved you) or Paul's (which was basically trying to rectify Christianity with the old law).
Thanks for clarifying, I really couldn't make sense out of that post.

So basically the whole "ermagherd jesus says dem gayz are wrong" hobo argument is pretty much void? Kinda funny how easily people copy statements like that, while the basis is totally unfounded. So if you interpret it from Jesus' teachings, now even the bible actually says that it's okay to be gay?


That's one nonsentical argument tackled then. Now the whole homosexuality is gross...
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Old 08-10-2014, 08:46 AM   #639
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Thank you Bono_212! I wish I had the gift of speech. Sadly, mine is the gift of gab. I didn't realize galeon girl was asking for explanation. I'm so used to forums where persons often jest. I'm new here, but I'm sure I learn the mannerisms of the regulars with time.


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English isn't my native language, and while I've had a religious upbringing, I don't remember most of the stuff. So I was honestly not quite sure what you meant with your post.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
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Old 08-11-2014, 01:58 AM   #640
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Thanks for clarifying, I really couldn't make sense out of that post.

So basically the whole "ermagherd jesus says dem gayz are wrong" hobo argument is pretty much void? Kinda funny how easily people copy statements like that, while the basis is totally unfounded. So if you interpret it from Jesus' teachings, now even the bible actually says that it's okay to be gay?


That's one nonsentical argument tackled then. Now the whole homosexuality is gross...
Hey, no problem. I figured I'd play on the safe side and just answer you sincerely .

Basically, yeah. As far as I know, Jesus said nothing about homosexuality, at least not in what's recorded in the Gospels, and if we're to believe the Bible is what God wants us to have from that period, well, then, as far as what matters, Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.

But, by that same logic: Paul DID speak on homosexuality and he did still call it a sin. As we've talked about before, though, it's mentioned in the same reference to being a sin as any kind of sexual "immorality" so I'm not sure what makes it any "worse"/"Better" than adultery or sex outside of marriage, etc.

Anyways, I'm just putting out both sides of the Christianity argument. Just to try to help answer questions.
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Old 08-11-2014, 03:32 AM   #641
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So if one speaks against homosexuality, and another doesn't mention it, does that imply that people just simply choose to be against it, rather than be indifferent?

Fair point on the other immoralities. Seems like this is the last big hurdle then, since sex outside of marriage is pretty accepted nowadays. In our parts of the world that is, though.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
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Old 08-11-2014, 02:19 PM   #642
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So if one speaks against homosexuality, and another doesn't mention it, does that imply that people just simply choose to be against it, rather than be indifferent?

Fair point on the other immoralities. Seems like this is the last big hurdle then, since sex outside of marriage is pretty accepted nowadays. In our parts of the world that is, though.
In my personal opinion, I think it speaks to the sort of protestant viewpoint of forming your own relationship with and understanding of the Bible's message. So, you could say it's a simple choice, in a sense.
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:58 AM   #643
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I wonder why it's then preached as the mother of all sins, while things like eating seafood and divorce and premarital sex are now deemed a choice. Where does the difference come from? Because it's so hard for people to understand someone can love another from the same gender, so it must be unnatural or something? I just don't get it.
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Old 08-12-2014, 04:01 AM   #644
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I wonder why it's then preached as the mother of all sins, while things like eating seafood and divorce and premarital sex are now deemed a choice. Where does the difference come from? Because it's so hard for people to understand someone can love another from the same gender, so it must be unnatural or something? I just don't get it.
I think some of it may be the idea that it's "living" in sin, perhaps. More to it, though, I'm sure that it's simply being uncomfortable with something outside of the "norm", so people fall back on the Biblically given excuse they have to not except it.

As far as the whole thing about sins about eating, that is more of a Jewish tradition. There's a lot also said in Acts about that being up to the individual to decide. Again, because they were bringing Gentiles into the new faith who, obviously, didn't follow the Old Law.
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Old 08-12-2014, 04:11 AM   #645
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So in order for the Biblical folk to start accepting gay people as humans, they should accept that the norms of today's society are different than the ones from the book they follow? It does show the complexity of the issue though, people don't like change, and they certainly don't want to hear what they believe is wrong or outdated. I find that challenge more and more with my aging father. He's stubborn as hell and convinced he's right in everything, whenever you try to correct him or explain things differently, he gets angry or ridicules you, rather than being open for something new. Guess we just need a new generation to make a difference, and in a few generation, we can finally accept that we're not that different at all.

Maybe one day, generations far away from now, the same thing could happen with people of different religion. Especially in the middle east, where people just kill each other for believing in something different..that could be of great impact. It's madness.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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