the drugs DO work

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Irvine511

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at least magic mushrooms seem to:



[q]Mushroom drug produces mystical experience
Updated 7/11/2006 1:03 PM

By Malcolm Ritter, Ap Science Writer
NEW YORK — People who took an illegal drug made from mushrooms reported profound mystical experiences that led to behavior changes lasting for weeks — all part of an experiment that recalls the psychedelic '60s.

Many of the 36 volunteers rated their reaction to a single dose of the drug, called psilocybin, as one of the most meaningful or spiritually significant experiences of their lives. Some compared it to the birth of a child or the death of a parent.

Such comments "just seemed unbelievable," said Roland Griffiths of the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in Baltimore, the study's lead author.

But don't try this at home, he warned. "Absolutely don't."

Almost a third of the research participants found the drug experience frightening even in the very controlled setting. That suggests people experimenting with the illicit drug on their own could be harmed, Griffiths said.

Viewed by some as a landmark, the study is one of the few rigorous looks in the past 40 years at a hallucinogen's effects. The researchers suggest the drug someday may help drug addicts kick their habit or aid terminally ill patients struggling with anxiety and depression.

It may also provide a way to study what happens in the brain during intense spiritual experiences, the scientists said.

Funded in part by the federal government, the research was published online Tuesday by the journal Psychopharmacology.

Psilocybin has been used for centuries in religious practices, and its ability to produce a mystical experience is no surprise. But the new work demonstrates it more clearly than before, Griffiths said.

Even two months after taking the drug, pronounced SILL-oh-SY-bin, most of the volunteers said the experience had changed them in beneficial ways, such as making them more compassionate, loving, optimistic and patient. Family members and friends said they noticed a difference, too.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2006-07-11-mushroom-drug_x.htm

[/q]



is it possible that the useage of some drugs can affect mental states, and we can use those states for self-betterment and self-exploration? both the religious and the atheistic can probably attest to the capacity of the human mind to feel the oneness of things and the occasional ability to put aside selfish ego. mushrooms seem to demonstrate that there is a biological capacity for this sense of oneness. of course, an experience can just be an experience, but perhaps a drug experience -- like a religious experience, or any other kind of profoundly meaningful experience -- can become the basis of a more fulfilling and giving life. the drug, alone, is fairly irrelevant, but what is done with the drug is what matters, and ultimately, the drug should demonstrate it's own irrelevance, the drug tells us that we don't need the drug to have these experiences.

what's wrong with studying the pharmacology behind love and joy?
 
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oh, and even though there was once a time where i was going to Amsterdam every weekend, i've never tried mushrooms. don't know that i ever would.

but i think it's interesting.
 
I remember reading similar articles about LSD and Mescaline.

Very intriguing thread Irvine.

Have you ever seen the movie “Altered States?” Not a great movie, but it had a cool premise – similar to this experiment.
 
No surprise here. It was experimental/recreational drug use in college that later helped me understand the different inner planes of consciousness discussed in various esoteric spiritual teachings. Certain drugs can open up these planes prematurely but one generally cannot sustain those levels with drugs.

There are also some excellent medicinal mushrooms for the immune system but they probably won't take you to the G-spot :wink: :
http://www.gardenoflife.com/detail_rm10.shtml
 
Very interesting although a friend of mine from university did end up with a rather unfortunate paranoid psychosis after eating psilocybin-containing mushrooms so I wouldn't recommend it. He was pretty odd before though.

Have you ever seen the movie “Altered States?” Not a great movie, but it had a cool premise – similar to this experiment.

I saw it years ago and it does deal with mental effects of drugs for about 40 minutes. Then it just becomes utterly silly.
 
An instant feeling of love, joy and “oneness” through chemicals? Are we that out of touch with reality that we need (or want) to get to these states through artificial means? This is essentially suggesting that we need not learn love, joy or oneness if we can give ourselves the same feeling.
 
nbcrusader said:
An instant feeling of love, joy and “oneness” through chemicals? Are we that out of touch with reality that we need (or want) to get to these states through artificial means? This is essentially suggesting that we need not learn love, joy or oneness if we can give ourselves the same feeling.



i think what's being argued is that the sensation of "oneness" can be induced by drugs, but it is fleeting, and can be achieved through years of meditation and reflection that the average person probably doesn't have time for. it also says that drugs are sort of a parlor trick, a way to get a glimpse of the top of the mountain, but not a way to stay up there. but what the study also suggests is that even the glimpse of the top of the mountain -- perhaps, some might relate this to a sense that God, or Jesus, or Allah, has spoken to them directly and their lives are forever changed because they know, now, that they are not alone -- is enough to combat the loneliness and depression and sense of isolation that so many succumb to. chemicals are not the solution, but they might give us a glimpse at the answer.

once again, many paths. simply because religion and drugs have much in common doesn't mean that religion is a drug, or that drugs are a religion, but that they are different paths towards getting to that place where we can find the face we had before the world was made.
 
nbcrusader said:
An instant feeling of love, joy and “oneness” through chemicals? Are we that out of touch with reality that we need (or want) to get to these states through artificial means? This is essentially suggesting that we need not learn love, joy or oneness if we can give ourselves the same feeling.

our common ground :love:

i agree.
 
Even two months after taking the drug, pronounced SILL-oh-SY-bin, most of the volunteers said the experience had changed them in beneficial ways, such as making them more compassionate, loving, optimistic and patient. Family members and friends said they noticed a difference, too.

I don't see how this could be considered a bad thing, no matter how it was achieved. It seems to me this drug is a tool and can be used in both good and bad ways, just like any other tool. And just like any other drug (legal or not) and most foods, there are people who will have bad reactions to it. But I don't think it should be dismissed out of hand simply because it is perceived as "cheating" somehow.

If you can get the changes mentioned without this drug, good for you. And if you can get the changes with the drug, good for you too.
 
nbcrusader said:
An instant feeling of love, joy and “oneness” through chemicals? Are we that out of touch with reality that we need (or want) to get to these states through artificial means? This is essentially suggesting that we need not learn love, joy or oneness if we can give ourselves the same feeling.

I don't think that it suggests that but rather that an otherworldly drug experience could inspire some people to subsequently seek love, joy and oneness through meaningful interaction with the people in their lives. That sound like a pretty good thing.
 
silja said:


I don't think that it suggests that but rather that an otherworldly drug experience could inspire some people to subsequently seek love, joy and oneness through meaningful interaction with the people in their lives. That sound like a pretty good thing.



agreed.

and people have been using drugs since ... forever. they have always been a part of religious/mystical ceremonies in all cultures.

i also wonder if it isn't reality itself that pushes us away from love, joy, and peace.
 
I don't advocate going out and trying drugs to see if you can have some kind of spiritual experience. But what is most interesting to me about this is that most religions promote embracing all the things they say are good, while relinguishing all the things they say are bad, when in fact many of those "bad" things can bring people to profound life-changing experiences. This is one of my biggest beefs with religions, the whole embrace good, avoid evil, business (good and evil as defined by them), instead of embracing all of life's experiences and recognizing that they all have value. They also all have consequences, good and bad, but that is how we learn and if, say, a troubled person who is drawn to drugs is going to do them anyway, and they have what they feel is a spiritual experience which puts their life on a better course, then to have advised them against doing drugs and telling them that that is bad and evil and wrong, may not have served them as well as actually doing the drugs and having the experience.
 
I haven't touched a shroom in about 7 years. However, I can completely understand how these people had a "top 5 event in their lives" or felt more connected to the world around them. On the flip side, I can also see how some people hated it.

Different strokes for different folks. Interesting study nonetheless.
 
joyfulgirl said:
instead of embracing all of life's experiences and recognizing that they all have value.

"All" of life's experiences? Slicing throats of bums? Smashing babies heads against a brick wall? I seriously doubt you mean this, I am just pointing out where this line of thinking leads.

It is difficult to understand what these actual mushroom "experiences" really mean. It seems they could certainly lead into "brainwashing" territory. (Ever see Jacob's Ladder?)
 
AEON said:


"All" of life's experiences? Slicing throats of bums? Smashing babies heads against a brick wall? I seriously doubt you mean this, I am just pointing out where this line of thinking leads.


Boy, you took that one of context. Look at everything else she said...:huh:
 
Thanks, BVS.

Aeon, do I really have to elaborate further or can the essence of what I was saying be gleaned without nitpicking over obvious points? I could actually argue the "value" of smashing a baby's head against a brick wall in terms of karma, reincarnation and the evolution of soul but that is not what I'm talking about here and I'm not going there.
 
AEON said:

It is difficult to understand what these actual mushroom "experiences" really mean. It seems they could certainly lead into "brainwashing" territory. (Ever see Jacob's Ladder?)

You do know there are people who wonder what various people's religious "experiences" really mean too, don't you? Are religious "experiences" any more real than drug induced ones?

And at least some religions sure seem to brainwash their victims...errr...I mean adherents. :wink:
 
It's a good thing that there's no drug or alcohol testing for the Nobel in literature... the world would truly be a much duller place.
 
for me, it all comes down to this: drugs are not spirituality, but they can help us achieve insights into spiritual enlightenment and the, hopefully, inspire us strive for genuine insight without them.

what i don't understand are the paranoid DRUGS ARE ALWAYS EVIL mentality, and i say this as someone who hasn't tried the drug in question in this thread, nor anything stronger than that.

yes, the fuck people up. no, they are not for everybody. yes, some drugs (pot, maybe) are better than others (meth, certainly). and it is a slippery slope. but i think we'd do better to understand how drugs work and what they give to people. is it possible that we can have a nuanced understanding of some kinds of drugs? is it possible that artificially altering our present realitites let us know just how much of "reality" is filtered through very human bodily senses, that just maybe we are more than flesh and that we are also spirit, or maybe we are all spirit and we are not bodies, we are our mind and perhaps we are thoughts in God's mind and that has never, ever changed and that these moments of chemically induced clarity might force us to realize that anytime that you look through the body's eyes you are seeing illusions? might this reveal to this passionate agnostic that we are indeed more than flesh and that somethings simply can't be explained by biology and chemistry? it is possible that something positive might have come out of recreational drug use?

you know, beyond "Dark Side of the Moon."

;)
 
Uuuh, 'Dark Side of the Moon'. I love that one.

The problem with recreational drug use (apart from the obvious addiction and physiological damage aspects) is that they affect people very differently. I for one can get a great, though involuntary, trip out of ibuprofen - colours, sensing people's auras, floation on clouds and so on.
 
Irvine511 said:
that just maybe we are more than flesh and that we are also spirit, or maybe we are all spirit and we are not bodies, we are our mind and perhaps we are thoughts in God's mind and that has never, ever changed and that these moments of chemically induced clarity might force us to realize that anytime that you look through the body's eyes you are seeing illusions?

If you hadn't said you'd never done shrooms I'd say you were trippin' right now. :lol:

:sexywink:
 
AliEnvy said:


If you hadn't said you'd never done shrooms I'd say you were trippin' right now. :lol:

:sexywink:


:sexywink:

i once fancied myself as something of a mystic-to-be -- it was one of the things i liked about U2, and Bono in particular, was their semi-mystic and totally groovey take on Christianity, and the idea of God (to set aside Jesus) was empowering and equalizing and made is totally insignficant yet incomprehensibly precious all in the same breath and how the rock show itself is a means of letting go and allowing us to have a collective trip -- as it were ... and when i go there, i go there with you -- into the collective soul.

but reality seems much harsher these days, the understanding of the spirit seems too easily explained by science and physics and biology and chemistry, and if we take the simplest explanation possible -- that there is no god and we are simply highly evolved animals -- then it all makes much more sense than the hocus-pocus you-better-be-good-for-goodness-sake of *all* religions.

so that's where i'm at.

maybe i should shroom? do you think i'd see Jesus? or Allah? or Vishnu?

;)
 
Somehow I think if you take a psychadelic drug expecting a mystical experience, it likely won't happen. Just as it doesn't happen at a U2 show if you are expecting it, know what I mean? It may be highly spiritual, produce a nice (natural) high or whatever...but doesn't necessarily reach that *place* that indescribably unlocks a timeless stream of consciousness (which probably unexpectedly happened to many of us at our first U2 show lol)...take me to that other place....

I don't think the risks associated with LSD or mushrooms make that road of spiritual exploration very attractive but people like shortcuts and paths of least resistence and chewing shrooms is more accessible than climbing mountains in Tibet. :wink:
 
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