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Old 02-07-2008, 04:09 PM   #31
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there's a reason why Colin Powell's wife was against him running for higher office.
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:20 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


When people start bringing up RFK, I get this uneasy feeling too.
My parents and I are the same way. I don't think the country could handle another devastating loss like that.

Though, Secret Service for Presidential candidates started the day after RFK was killed.

Go Obama
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:25 PM   #33
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My parents and I are the same way. I don't think the country could handle another devastating loss like that.

Though, Secret Service for Presidential candidates started the day after RFK was killed.

Go Obama

You learn something new every day. I thought Secret Service for candidates was still a relatively new practice. It's sad that it took that for it to happen. I still wonder about how much better off our country would probably be if the Kennedys hadn't been assassinated.
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:41 PM   #34
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A friend who enthusiastically voted for Obama on Tuesday told me that when she was watching the returns that night and Obama gave his speech, she was very disturbed by the appearance of an all-black choir behind him. It wasn't actually an all-black choir of course, but it looked like one (I had noticed the same thing). We both found it really off-putting. Obama should deflect that as much as possible.
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:50 PM   #35
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Why did you find it offputting? And deflect what?

I don't think I understand what you're saying there.
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:53 PM   #36
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Why did you find it offputting? And deflect what?

I don't think I understand what you're saying there.
The sort of religious-like fervor surrounding him. He can't help how people respond to him but he doesn't have to encourage it by appearing to be a preacher in front of a choir. I'm basically saying, I agree with a lot of the article that Max posted.
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:57 PM   #37
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I watched that speech and it never occurred to me that there was a quasi-choir behind him. I'd be willing to bet that 95% of people didn't either.
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:59 PM   #38
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my father was in Chicago on Tuesday night, and he had this to say (please forgive his "U-2"):



[q]Being in Chicago last evening was most interesting. Obama's headquarters are located one floor above us in an office building on Michigan Ave. I stayed at the Hyatt Regency, just across the street, and the grand ballroom became the site for his post ballot counting speech. we had dinner and then stopped by the ballroom, but learned he was not going to speak for at least an hour or more (depended on Hilary - he wanted her to go first)). I went back about 10:30 PM and went to the "celebration'. Of note, you did not need a ticket, promise to pledge $$, or be staff or member of the press to attend - just come in ( but $2 to check your coat), and pass through not too rigorous a security check . The crowd on the stage seemed like a well orchestrated diverse group - but no more diverse than the rest of the audience, some standing for 2 or more hours to hear him speak - young and old African Americans, Hispanics, some Asians, young and old caucasian men and women,college students and young volunteers. Jessie Jackson walked by, as did Cornell West. A few other observations :


* when Hilary was giving her speech on CNN, at first they put her on mute. And when the volume returned,there were multiple cheers/jeers of 'no you can't.. no you can't"
* one supporter standing behind me commented - "they will never make a song from one of her speeches - flat and drab"
* Obama was introduced by Dick Durbin, senior sneator from Illinois - while wating for Obama, the music was " beautiful day " by U-2
* Obama began by first acknowledging the death of several people in Tenn and GA from the tornados..then moved to his basic speech about change
* a few lines I remember in particular : " we/you are who we have been waiting for all these years to create change" . " what began as a whisper one year ago on the steps of the Illinois state house is now a chorus heard round the nation" " the more experience one has in Washington the greater the chance you cannot create change", and to think, his speech writer is only 26...........
* he ended with a story about his early days working in the south end of Chicago, and that for his first community meeting, no one showed up...... his staff was crushed, but he was able to keep his volunteers and staff working and finally they made progress in basic issues such as food, housing, education and alternatives to life on the street........

I left thinking he might just be too good to be true......should be an interesting next month or two............and security needs to be better........

[/q]
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Old 02-07-2008, 05:01 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
The sort of religious-like fervor surrounding him. He can't help how people respond to him but he doesn't have to encourage it by appearing to be a preacher in front of a choir.
Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying.
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Old 02-07-2008, 05:01 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
I watched that speech and it never occurred to me that there was a quasi-choir behind him. I'd be willing to bet that 95% of people didn't either.
Maybe. My friend's an atheist, and I'm non-religious. We noticed it immediately. I was put off by it the same way I'm put off by Bush's Biblical references in speeches. I'm NOT comparing Obama to Bush in any way, but some people just really don't want religious symbolism mixed with politics, and are sensitive to it.
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Old 02-07-2008, 05:03 PM   #41
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I didn't notice that either. This is the first I've heard of anyone commenting on it.


Thanks for sharing your Dad's experience, Irvine. I'll be seeing both Clinton and Obama Saturday evening and will share my experience as well
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Old 02-07-2008, 05:04 PM   #42
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Well, all I can say is that it was as obvious to us as the ad in which Huckabee's in front of the windowpane/cross.
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Old 02-07-2008, 05:06 PM   #43
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I was oblivious to that too until it was pointed out
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Old 02-07-2008, 05:08 PM   #44
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Originally posted by U2democrat
I was oblivious to that too until it was pointed out
I didn't notice Janet Jackson's breast at the Superbowl even though I was riveted to the performance.
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Old 02-07-2008, 05:09 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Maybe. My friend's an atheist, and I'm non-religious. We noticed it immediately. I was put off by it the same way I'm put off by Bush's Biblical references in speeches. I'm NOT comparing Obama to Bush in any way, but some people just really don't want religious symbolism mixed with politics, and are sensitive to it.


i feel this way too. there aren't enough eyerolling emoticons to express my irritation when the Democrats did their faith panderthon last fall. i really don't care about a politicians faith in the slightest, right up until he starts to use that faith as either a rationale for policy or a rationale to vote for him. then it matters.

Obama has been a bit too religious for my taste. i just don't see what it has to do with anything at all. but i don't get the aggressiveness that i got from Bush, and i don't see his faith as being as exclusive as Bush's faith.

but i'm dancing around this issue. so i'll spell it out. it's ugly, but its how i feel. it seems that whenever anyone paints themselves as "religious" in any sort of public forum, that's just code for anti-choice/anti-gay. and the implication being that those who are pro-choice/pro-gay cannot possibly be authentically religious. aside from the whole separation of church and state thing, it strikes me that politicians only introduce their "personal religious convictions" when they're dressing up some kind of institutionalized hate speech or sucking up to faith-based groups (some of whom do good work, it must be said). so it's not just the intellectual desire to have faith and politics operating in two separate spheres, but it's been the very lived in reality of the past 20 years, and especially the past 8, that Christian = gay hater.

and so, in so many words, i find Obama's fairly overt faith much more comforting because i feel fairly certain he's not going to excuse hate speech as nothing more than religious expression. and he's the only candidate who mentions gay people in his stump speech. and he's walked into african-american churches and chided them for their homophobia and blamed them for the long suffering gay black male.
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