Taxes - are you concerned about them going up?

[MadelynIris]

Anyone at all concerned about taxes going up with a new democratic president? More so for Obama?

I did the math, and I'll be looking at about 5000 more per year. This is a huge factor for me, and a reason NOT to vote for him.

Should it matter? Will it matter to a voter? Shouldn't we all just do our part and pay more taxes? Up to say, 50% for the common good? Is the incentive to innovate, create, work hard, etc... going to leave?

 

[BVS]

Is the incentive to innovate, create, work hard, etc... going to leave?

What does innovation have to do with taxes?

I guess we should just keep defecit spending and run the dollar into the ground...

 

[MadelynIris]

What does innovation have to do with taxes?

The drive to innovate, usually is accompanied by financial reward. So, what good is it, to make more money (develop a new product or idea, especially for a small business) if it only means it pushes you into the next bracket (those who make more than X) if you wind up paying more to the government?

It's also called capitalism in some circles.

This is a micro example, but think on a macro scale.

No, we could cut more government programs to pay back the deficit right? Like pull out of Iraq and don't look back.

 

[Irvine511]

The drive to innovate, usually is accompanied by financial reward. So, what good is it, to make more money (develop a new product or idea, especially for a small business) if it only means it pushes you into the next bracket (those who make more than X) if you wind up paying more to the government?

It's also called capitalism in some circles.

this also gives you horrible, horrible movies and television that have been focused grouped and test marketed to an inch of their lives, and it puts more sex and violence up on the screen.

since that's what people pay for.

i know, big tangent, but i just dislike the assertion that profit motive always results in better products, and thusly, a better society.

 

[BVS]

So people will be scared to make more because they will have to pay more, even though they still make more at the end of the day...

And yes we could cut A LOT of government spending...

 

[anitram]

If I were voting in my own self-interest, based on my salary (thank you corporate law), I would every time vote for the conservatives.

I have never voted for them, because my own self interest is not paramount to that of the social good. Furthermore, I am lucky to be earning what I earn and as much as it may sting when you see nearly half your cheque gone (our top marginal rate here is 46%), I'd rather pay all that money than have to survive on 50% or 30% of my salary.

 

[financeguy]

Anyone at all concerned about taxes going up with a new democratic president? More so for Obama?

I did the math, and I'll be looking at about 5000 more per year. This is a huge factor for me, and a reason NOT to vote for him.

Should it matter? Will it matter to a voter? Shouldn't we all just do our part and pay more taxes? Up to say, 50% for the common good? Is the incentive to innovate, create, work hard, etc... going to leave?

'I did the math'.

Neocon logic.

Don't you just love it.

Now pay close attention, here is a simple lesson in 'math'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USDebt.png

 

[Vincent Vega]

It's interesting how the Danes are mostly fine with a top tax rate of 64% because it means they are covered by a strong social system (mind you, back in the 1990's they were majorily opposed to having their taxes raised), and in the US it's the total opposite.
And Denmark is doing great and the Danes one of the happiest folks in the world.
Sweden, having a similar system as Denmark, is now innovation leader. Obviously, the high taxes didn't stop too many from inventing.

 

[MadelynIris]

Neocon logic.

fincanceguy,

what cute little irish colloquialism for applying what looks to be some hefty tax increases to my tax status, would you like me to use?

 

[martha]

I did the math, and I'll be looking at about 5000 more per year. This is a huge factor for me, and a reason NOT to vote for him.

How else are we going to pay for this fucking war?

 

[MadelynIris]

Sweden, having a similar system as Denmark, is now innovation leader. Obviously, the high taxes didn't stop too many from inventing.

Good point Vega. I assume the gov sets aside some special programs for R&D, etc.. some tax breaks etc.. for new ventures. But regardless, a good example of how it hasn't hindered innovation. It's all relative of course. Even though you might be paying more taxes, one still would have a better standard of living.

I'm also assuming that they are pleased on the return on investment for their tax dollars in northern europe. Something I think that is not possible any time soon in the US. We're too big, too bureucratic to have a good ROI. Maybe at the county/city level. Usually by the time it hits the state level, the corruption and red tape, and laziness diminish a real result.

 

[yolland]

So people will be scared to make more because they will have to pay more, even though they still make more at the end of the day...

This is pretty much always my reaction too. I qualify as "lower middle class" by most definitions, and such concerns as I have about my family's economic future pretty much all boil down to wishing I made a (significantly) larger salary. Compared to that hypothetical difference, the amounts I lose to taxes just aren't enough to get worked up about.

 

[MadelynIris]

How else are we going to pay for this fucking war?

Hmm... I don't think Obama was thinking of raising taxes to pay for the war... But regardless, point taken.

 

[Irvine511]

i've never heard of anyone who thought, "yeah, i'd love to increase my salary by $20K within 5 years, but i'll get taxed a little bit more, so might as well just stay at home and pick my nose."

 

[financeguy]

fincanceguy,

what cute little irish colloquialism for applying what looks to be some hefty tax increases to my tax status, would you like me to use?

Republican reductions in tax rates, in recent years, have only been achieved by massively increasing the size of the government debt (the size of the government hasn't declined. If anything, the opposite is the case).

You appear to have either missed, or to be unconcerned about that rather important point.

Republican politicians TELL the public that they will reduce the size of the government, but once elected, fail to do so - and that is because Republican politicians - with occasional exceptions such as Ron Paul, are hypocrites, liars, corrupt charlatans and war criminals.

At least Democrats are HONEST in admitting that THEIR big government proposals cost the taxpayer money.

 

[anitram]

Hmm... I don't think Obama was thinking of raising taxes to pay for the war... But regardless, point taken.

Is he raising taxes or is he rolling them back to what they were before Bushonomics kicked in?

As far as I understand it, the rollback is supposed to pay for the health care plan.

 

[anitram]

i've never heard of anyone who thought, "yeah, i'd love to increase my salary by $20K within 5 years, but i'll get taxed a little bit more, so might as well just stay at home and pick my nose."

No kidding.

I've also never heard anyone who made 6 figures say "I wish I was making $35K/year so that my marginal tax rate was half what it is now."

 

[financeguy]

Bushonomics

2+2=5

 

[MadelynIris]

i've never heard of anyone who thought, "yeah, i'd love to increase my salary by $20K within 5 years, but i'll get taxed a little bit more, so might as well just stay at home and pick my nose."

Lol. You should talk to my tax attorney. They live and breathe exactly what you've never heard of, 24/7.

 

[ntalwar]

Tax credits should be shifted from the oil companies to green energy companies. This will help with innovation and investment.

It's interesting how the Danes are mostly fine with a top tax rate of 64% because it means they are covered by a strong social system (mind you, back in the 1990's they were majorily opposed to having their taxes raised), and in the US it's the total opposite.

A lot of Danes have moved to London and elsewhere in Europe.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/05/business/labor.php

 

[anitram]

Lol. You should talk to my tax attorney. They live and breathe exactly what you've never heard of, 24/7.

Perhaps you should look for a better one.

 

[Irvine511]

Lol. You should talk to my tax attorney. They live and breathe exactly what you've never heard of, 24/7.

they are a special breed, i'm sure.

 

[MadelynIris]

Agree financeguy on the Bush years -- it was a reversal for sure on traditional conservative thought.

Anitram... He's proposed rolling them back, but other hikes as well. I've read a couple of articles in the WSJ about Obamanomics --

This is not one of them but quotes some from WSJ--

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MGYxYWM4NjkxMjUwMzBhZDAwNTg2NjZmYmU5MWU2ZmQ=

Given the fact that a lot of his proposals might not make it to reality, and I'm sure that when this guy "did the math" that he might have been out of his mind (or not), that this is a stab in the dark. Regardless...

The removal of the social security tax cap bums me out. Thats a few grand for me right off the top, you too I presume. I used to celebrate every year when i maxed out SS, getting a little raise for myself for the rest of the year.

I think everyone needs to understand, a vote for Obama is a vote for a more socialistic society, that's all. So be it.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Good point Vega. I assume the gov sets aside some special programs for R&D, etc.. some tax breaks etc.. for new ventures. But regardless, a good example of how it hasn't hindered innovation. It's all relative of course. Even though you might be paying more taxes, one still would have a better standard of living.

I'm also assuming that they are pleased on the return on investment for their tax dollars in northern europe. Something I think that is not possible any time soon in the US. We're too big, too bureucratic to have a good ROI. Maybe at the county/city level. Usually by the time it hits the state level, the corruption and red tape, and laziness diminish a real result.

From my experience with the Danish bureaucracy (cannot comment on the Swedish) I don't think there would be that great a difference.

I don't say the two countries are comparable, but still think it is interesting how greatly opposed the Americans are to the very idea of raising the taxes, and well, you cold not establish any form of social security and only years later bother with the funding.

Given the overdebtedness of the US today and the costs it is facing over the next years I'm pretty certain that sooner or later an increase in taxes is inavoidable. But the problem is, the money is so dire needed and it can't be spent on social security.

 

[MadelynIris]

Perhaps you should look for a better one.

yeah. Terms like "tax avoidance" give me the creeps. Better than tax evasion though eh? Lol. Crazy attorneys.

 

[martha]

Hmm... I don't think Obama was thinking of raising taxes to pay for the war... But regardless, point taken.

No matter what, the war is a huge drain on resources that normally go elsewhere. I suppose you could cut out children's programs, and then not raise taxes.

 

[anitram]

I think everyone needs to understand, a vote for Obama is a vote for a more socialistic society, that's all. So be it.

How long before somebody starts calling him a Communist.

Republican voters have their wonderful party to thank for the current state of the economy, the massive debt and the need for roll backs (or increases).

I ask you, would you rather make $35K/year so you can avoid being taxed these extra $5K? I sure as hell wouldn't give up my salary just so I can be at a lower rate. In fact I find something distasteful about people in my position constantly complaining about their taxes while they drive their asses to work in a Lexus, have a 7 figure McMansion out in the suburbs and vacation in Fiji twice a year. Yeah, you're really suffering, I don't know how you can make it through the day, people.

 

[martha]

I think everyone needs to understand, a vote for Obama is a vote for a more socialistic society, that's all. So be it.

They seem to be not only clear on this concept, but okay with it.

 

[anitram]

yeah. Terms like "tax avoidance" give me the creeps. Better than tax evasion though eh? Lol. Crazy attorneys.

Tax avoidance is a thing of beauty, it is an art of statutory interpretation, it is a fine dance between tax lawyers and the government.

 

[MadelynIris]

They seem to be not only clear on this concept, but okay with it.

Yeah. Like I said, so mote it be.