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Old 12-09-2004, 04:04 AM   #31
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I didn't mean to say anything against Nadia, I'm a fan too, I loved watching her as a kid. She had her own TV special on her birthday the year of the Olympics ('76). If anything I meant that she may have been at a disadvantage being a NORMAL girl of normal development if some of the Russian girls were on the growth stunting drugs. I don't really know since the '80 Olympics were not shown in the US since we boycotted. The "Peter Pan" drugs did nothing to enhance performance, it was just something they gave girls to keep them smaller and underdeveloped longer. I'm sure there has been no use of them since Communism fell.
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Old 12-09-2004, 06:26 AM   #32
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Some athletes might try to convince themselves that steroids are "good" for them- maybe they're in denial. What about the long term effects? Marion Jones had a baby, how does she know how the child has been affected if she has/had been using steroids?

Steroids can affect your fertility, sex life, your hormones, and who knows what else. Maybe they caused Giambi's health problems?
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Old 12-09-2004, 06:44 AM   #33
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I'm a big fan of Nadia's also. Could you give me a link to that site Lies? Thanks.
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Old 12-09-2004, 12:31 PM   #34
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cheating and sports go hand in hand. people have cheated to get an edge for the entire history of professional sport. designer steroids are just the next step.

ty cobb used to sharpen his spikes so they were razor sharp so that when he slid into second base he could break up double plays and possiably cause people to drop the ball. he cheated to gain an advantage.

the boston celtics of the 1960s used to pump the heat in the visitor's locker room of the boston garden up to near 100 degrees in order to further fatigue them. the chicago bulls were said to have done the same thing in the early 90s. they cheated to gain and advantage.

gaylord perry is in the hall of fame because of his spit ball.

the university of florida's science department developed a chemical drink that replenished the lost minerals of their football team, the gators, giving them a competitive advantage. now no one has an advantage... because you can buy this aide for the gators anywhere... it's called gatorade.

teams that use domed baseball stadiums have been known to adjust the directional air flow in the building in order to have the vents blowing out towards centerfield when the home team is batting.

willie mays admits to using amphedamines while playing in order to get an extra boost.

time keepers at home basketball, football, hockey games have been known to play games with the clock in order to give the home team an advantage.

baseball players with corked bats... football recievers with too much stick'um on their gloves... soccer players, basketball players, hockey players, football players "taking a dive" in order to draw a cheap foul... taking steroids.

it's all cheating... it all gives a competitive advantage to the person/team who is doing the deed.

is it right? absolutely not... but it's a fact. athletes, just like businessmen, will do anything they can to get an edge over their opponents. and the reality of the situation is that the only person they're hurting is themselves. they're taking 10-15 years off their lives...



...but before you ostracize these athletes as the bain of society... ask yourself the following question.

if someone came up to you today and said you could have a 15 year career in which you'd make over 150 million dollars, and then retire at no later than age 40... but you'd lose 10 years off the end of your life... would you do it?
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Old 12-09-2004, 12:52 PM   #35
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Don't forget the Raiders' stickum!
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Old 12-09-2004, 12:54 PM   #36
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Oh, it also goes into the little kid leagues! When my kid brother was in little league football, there was a weight limit. The coach actually told the boys to go home and take a diuretic (sp) and not eat anything else until after the weigh in!
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Old 12-09-2004, 03:09 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
I'm a big fan of Nadia's also. Could you give me a link to that site Lies? Thanks.
www.nadiacomaneci.com

The old site is still there b/c the domain transfer isn't quite complete yet. I've made a new design (I despise the existing one, lol) with an example here:

http://www.calvin.edu/~lar3/nadiatesthtml/

Nadia was on Jane Pauley yesterday.
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Old 12-09-2004, 03:13 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
if someone came up to you today and said you could have a 15 year career in which you'd make over 150 million dollars, and then retire at no later than age 40... but you'd lose 10 years off the end of your life... would you do it?
While all that money is mighty tempting, I don't know. I don't know if my conscience could live for decades knowing that I'm a cheater.

Anyone else want to answer?
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Old 12-09-2004, 07:20 PM   #39
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it does make perfect business sense.

and you've also got to wonder: does a corporation like the SF Giants, or whoever, have a vested interest in developing a star player and players who hit homeruns? would they not have a financial interest in having their players juiced? more homeruns equals more seats sold, more home runs equals better record equals better seats.

why wouldn't you? we're talking professional sports, which are almost by definition a business and entertainment. we could argue that NCAA, high school, and even the Olympics are different. but if Barry Bond's job is to hit home runs, and the more he hits the bigger my bottom line gets, what possible incentive do i have for him *not* to use steroids?
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Old 12-10-2004, 06:37 AM   #40
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I know it's incredibly naive, but my incentive for Barry would be that not using them is the right thing to do

I prefer to see sports as something other than just a business, even though I know that's silly
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Old 12-10-2004, 08:12 AM   #41
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Irvine's comparison had me thinking about Enron for whatever reason. Steroids to sports seem like Enron's accounting practices. Sure it brings in the big bucks, but is it fair?
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Old 12-10-2004, 08:15 AM   #42
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Personally, I find every single aspect of pro sports like the NFL, NHL, and NBA absolutely laughable. Honestly, Irvine's probably right, its not about sport is about MONEY, period. Everything else is so tainted already, I'm sure a few steriods won't make that much difference.
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Old 12-10-2004, 10:06 AM   #43
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The kids who are into sports grow to love the athletes at a very young age. I can always respect positive athletes who give kids good advice, to believe in themselves, and to convince them that they can accomplish so much. Good for those athletes. Please stay that way.

Now on another level, when we get a bit older, we learn to love music. Quite a bit of it is mainstream, profane, depressing, and drug-related. I wouldn't exactly celebrate a 12 year old who listens to gangsta rap, but at least he's facing an adult reality, and getting somewhat of a realistic exposure to the real world.

To me, it's an age issue, a fairness issue, and a role model issue. Kids who love sports and other things just to happen to be the future leaders as we know it. If we can keep things like sports as fair and healthy, we will allow kids to receive a positive impact early on.
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Old 12-10-2004, 10:13 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Irvine's comparison had me thinking about Enron for whatever reason. Steroids to sports seem like Enron's accounting practices. Sure it brings in the big bucks, but is it fair?

i think this makes some sense, but the difference -- and i know this, because i worked on a documentary about Enron and then WorldCom -- is that Enron's accounting practices were used to hold up, essentially, a house of cards. when that house came crashing down, ordinary investors lost thousands and thousands of dollars, some people lots their life savings. that's a huge consequence, and probably not comparable to whatever damage has been done (and probably not all that much ... remember, steroids today are not like what the wundermadchen of East Germany were injected with) to, say, his liver.

fair, however, is a good point. should sports be fair?

i totally put faith in sports, and like the gymnasts on here, the Olympics for a former swimmer like me is akin to the World Series and the Super Bowl all wrapped up into a single week. i reflexively despise the cheaters, like the East Germans and the Chinese women in the early 90s, and since the financial rewards of swimming are minimal at best -- multi-millionaires like Phelps and Thorpe are the exception not the rule, and they're also the two best male swimmers EVER, *and* we have them competing at the same time, it's quite a time for swimming -- i find a purity in the sport that i would never expect of the NHL or the NBA, which are money making enterprises.

but then again, sports are unfair. in southern california, there's a swimming pool everywhere you look. not so many swimming pools in, say, Mongolia, hence the lack of Mongolian success in the pool at the Olympics. someone is always going to have an advantage, and it's as much to do with resources (good coaches, facilities, nutrition) as it is with hard work and talent.

i dunno.

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