State of the Union

[joyfulgirl]

Re: ...

Marriage is a union where a child can be created and raised with parents of both gender. Those other people are unable to have children naturally, and they resort to such medical procedures that would overcome this shortfall or they adopt to acquire children, but they cannot change that nature does not want them to have children.

You are aware that infertile heterosexual couples also have medical procedures to overcome this "shortfall" even though "nature does not want them to have children," yes?

 

[joyfulgirl]

"As Americans, we have every right to choose who in society will not be granted the benefit of marriage." What right? You are just an American. Not American as in a grand and great title which gives unbelievable credibility. You are just a man in the grand scheme of things. A mere man. You and those who think like you, are not so grand and morally right to be believing you actually have a say in what is to be for other mere men (or women as the case may be). You base this solely on opinion.

 

[theSoulfulMofo]

Soooo... following Kevin Smith's Dogma line of logic ("One of the last sacred promises imparted to Peter the first Pope by the Son of God before He left was "Whatever you hold true on earth ... I'll hold true in Heaven.""), if only the Vatican would sanction homosexual marriages, then the sanctity of marriage is safe and all is right with the world. Now if only the Vatican could acknowledge their true colors....

sorry... just injecting some innocuous humor

 

[melon]

I respect the sanctity of marriage, but in the context of my Catholicism. In the Catholic Church, marriage is a sacrament. I am also a United States citizen. I think gay couples should be able to make a deal with the state in a court of law. Someone's religion is a private matter and is *not* connected to the state. It shouldn't be. The last thing we need is politicians dictating morality. I'm sorry, I think there's something inconsistent with that.

I think that straight couples should be able to make a deal with the state in a court of law and we should kick religion back into the Dark Ages where it belongs.

Melon

 

[verte76]

I think that straight couples should be able to make a deal with the state in a court of law and we should kick religion back into the Dark Ages where it belongs.

Melon

The idea of the church controlling the state does indeed belong in the Dark Ages. Blurring the distinction led to some real

 

[ILuvLarryMullen]

In response to the question about gay marriage possibly setting off lowered restrictions in heterosexual marriage:

i just don't think that is going to happen. The incest taboo in our country I don't think is ever going to change much, it exists in varying degrees in every culture, and i haven't seen any move to change it in ours. Like i said earlier, people used to use that kind of reasoning to argue why interracial couples shouldn't be allowed to marry. They said what next, people marrying animals, relatives, etc. It didn't happen then and it's not going to happen now either.

 

[DrTeeth]

I think that straight couples should be able to make a deal with the state in a court of law and we should kick religion back into the Dark Ages where it belongs.

Melon

Wait a minute, are you saying that the only way a couple can get married in the US is before a church??

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

. Well said, every one of you who support homosexual marriage.

Angela

 

[Judah]

Some more analysis/reality-check here:

http://www.movingideas.org/blitz/sotu2004.html

 

[STING2]

ILuvLarryMullen,

Would there be any restrictions on Gay Marriage as there is on Heterosexual Marriage?

 

[ILuvLarryMullen]

I'm not sure what you mean Sting. Can you please clarify/give examples? I would expect that homosexual marriage would have the same restrictions (incest, age, etc.)

 

[STING2]

ILuvLarryMullen,

"I would expect that homosexual marriage would have the same restrictions (incest, age, etc.)"

That is the answer I was looking for.

 

[melon]

Wait a minute, are you saying that the only way a couple can get married in the US is before a church??

No, but because of the fact that you have an option of going in front of a secular figure or a church to complete a marriage license, some people get some ideas in their head that state marriage is also religious marriage.

In France, I think there is no such confusion for the simple-minded masses.

Melon

 

[melon]

ILuvLarryMullen,

"I would expect that homosexual marriage would have the same restrictions (incest, age, etc.)"

That is the answer I was looking for.

I agree.

If people are worried about incest or animals or inanimate objects, then please: propose a constitutional amendment to define marriage between two people, regardless of gender.

Melon

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

http://news.yahoo.com/?tmpl=story&u=/oneworld/20040122/wl_oneworld/4536773651074779609



In recent days, unconfirmed reports have circulated that, despite public appeals from Evangelical leaders, AIDS experts, and others, Bush intends once again to request less than the $3 billion already authorized by Congress for fiscal year 2005, including only $200 million for the Global Fund, a sum, that, if matched proportionately by other donor nations, would provide only a small fraction of the $3.5 billion the Global Fund estimates is needed to begin to curb the spread of what is already the most lethal epidemic in recorded history.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

...

 

[Sherry Darling]

Exactly, Moonlit.

You know, George, I DEFENDED you last year! I said, "I know, but he said it in the SOTU, he means it, he serious."



sd

 

[joyfulgirl]

It was disgusting that he didn't mention these two things which are just about the most important subjects right now. Having just lost a good friend to AIDS on New Year's Eve, it makes me seethe even more.

 

[anitram]

I think Bono may have to come to realize that it's time we get people on the streets. He tried to go through Bush, it's clear this is as good as banging your head agains the wall. I have for long been critical of the way Bono has worked, because I truly believe that the only way to get anything like this done in the US is not through the top tier of politician, but through grassroots movements and mobilization of the middle class which is standing still, happily embracing the status quo. Like Joe Strummer said, without people, you're nothing. You need to shake up the complacent middle class to get results done. George is a crapshoot as he's always been.

Time to rethink our approaches here, IMO. What Bush wants, Bush gets. Bush needs people, that's where you've got to hit him. Bono and DATA and the various organizations have the power to get the word out, but mingling around with politicians almost exclusively lately isn't doing it. Screw Bush, let's bring him to the point where breaking the $3 billion promise will become an election issue and he'll be forced to fork over the money. The man doesn't care about anything else.

What with the sanctitiy of marriage and athletes doping up, we can see how there are more important issues to tackle than the spread of AIDS...

 

[verte76]

In recent days, unconfirmed reports have circulated that, despite public appeals from Evangelical leaders, AIDS experts, and others, Bush intends once again to request less than the $3 billion already authorized by Congress for fiscal year 2005, including only $200 million for the Global Fund, a sum, that, if matched proportionately by other donor nations, would provide only a small fraction of the $3.5 billion the Global Fund estimates is needed to begin to curb the spread of what is already the most lethal epidemic in recorded history. [/B]

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

What with the sanctitiy of marriage and athletes doping up, we can see how there are more important issues to tackle than the spread of AIDS...

Really.

Bottom line, this administration's priorities are completely up, and this is just more reason for me to not vote for Bush this year.

To all those who've been bugging our administration about this, I apologize. I had hope our admistration might actually pull through on this issue. I was hoping Bush would at least do one thing that would make me look at him with perhaps a little more respect.

I agree with you, anitram, maybe rethinking how we're going to solve this problem is a good idea.

Also, joyfulgirl, sorry to hear of your loss. .

Angela

 

[U2LipstickBoy]

Bush is right

Bush is right, it might be time just to give up funding research and help for AIDS. We've been spending more money on AIDS for years, and it's not making any progress, the blacks in Africa won't change their ways, they keep acting immorally and they keep getting AIDS.

If you want people to stop getting AIDS, tell them to change their behavior, Bush handing out blank checks to 3rd world nations won't affect the amount of people dying of AIDS, money certainly hasn't helped fight AIDS over the last 20 years.

Bush is right, spend American money on american people at home, not ungrateful 3rd worlders that won't shape up, start acting morally, and change their behavior.

As long as Bush stays on the correct side of these social issues, you will continue to see him ahead in the polls. America wants a president with strong faith, values, and morals, not some liberal that will just legalize everything. That is why we're seeing the old liberal Dean just getting blasted away in the polls, America doesn't want those ultra-liberal immoral values in America.

 

[nbcrusader]

I'm not sure where to begin with this post.

1. Faith value and morals means taking care of those in need - like those suffering from AIDS in Africa.

2. Generally, we don't give up on fighting a disease after 20 years. And it's not just "their" problem. It is a global problem that demands a response.

3. Liberal does not equal immoral. Conservative does not equal moral.

4. The rest of the comments are not worth a response.

 

[U2LipstickBoy]

a disease ?

AIDS is a voluntarily-acquired disease. When you use IV-drug needles, you're increasing your risk of getting AIDS. When you have immoral premarital relations, you're increasing your risk of getting AIDS.

The whole world knows how NOT to get AIDS, you don't need to be given $15 billion to avoid AIDS.

Nobody at my Church has AIDS, because everyone at my church has values and faith, they don't engage in immoral premarital or homosexual relations and don't use IV drug needles.

Bush has the right stance on AIDS, he gave them a shot in Africa to shape up and change their behavior, but the Africans just refuse to change. So now it's time to cut off the funding and instead fund engineers and highly educated Americans that go to school instead of getting AIDS, and that now want to explore Mars. Bush is right, it's time to reward NASA scientists and college graduates with money, and it's time to stop rewarding the Africans that get AIDS with $15 billion. It's an outrage that the Africans just sit over there all day, they don't produce any electronics or automobiles, they just act immorally and get AIDS, and they expect America to give them $ billions. It's time to stop giving out handouts to those ungrateful 3rd worlders.

 

[Katey]

Time to rethink our approaches here, IMO. What Bush wants, Bush gets. Bush needs people, that's where you've got to hit him. Bono and DATA and the various organizations have the power to get the word out, but mingling around with politicians almost exclusively lately isn't doing it. Screw Bush, let's bring him to the point where breaking the $3 billion promise will become an election issue and he'll be forced to fork over the money. The man doesn't care about anything else.

It has to be a multilateral movement and DATA, and Bono have taken steps in the past such as Hearts across America tour to create grassroots movements.. to get out an talk to the people and put the power in there hands.
Bono can't take people by the hand .. he can wack themover the head with the message and then it's up to us.. I am one of DATA's biggest supporters believe me.. but why does it have to be BONO the man can only do so much and he has over and over shouted out the message to the public.. When are other organizations and people in general take it upon themselves to step up. Not everything Bono does on this makes the headlines , and he still puts much hope and faith in the power of the people to make a differnce on this , that is what DATA is about as well.
If it comes to it , I bet you will see Bono the Irishmen banging lids on the street in the states.. Last time I checked he didnt have a vote but he has shown more heart on these issues then many of the American public. I don't mean to sound harsh I am gulity of not doing near what I should.. As Bono has said he is waiting for the day people say .. Bono we got it covered go home.. I bet he would like that gift very much.. American public to can help give it to him as can Canada

There is nothing glamerous about what has to be done to turn the tide on this emergency .. It has to to be corporations, government, labour, unions, students, soccer moms, clergy , rock stars, activists,media, NGOs and so many more working together on this ..

I never held faith in Bush doing a darn thing .. and I wont go into what I think of the man but he won't do anything if the public does not put pressure on him.. Having said that you have to work with the man who is in office wheither you believe in him , like him or not.. when you realize this emergency is bigger then you .. you will do just about anything I am sure.. Bono show us that and we all have something we can do


P.s Lipstock boy your ignorance .. lack of education and intolerance never suprises me I have come to expect nothing less then total garbage .. do us all a favour and stop posting ..

 

[nbcrusader]

Re: a disease ?

AIDS is a voluntarily-acquired disease. When you use IV-drug needles, you're increasing your risk of getting AIDS. When you have immoral premarital relations, you're increasing your risk of getting AIDS.

I am sure this is a comfort to those with AIDS, especially those born to mothers with AIDS and those who received blood transfusions.

Nobody at my Church has AIDS, because everyone at my church has values and faith, they don't engage in immoral premarital or homosexual relations and don't use IV drug needles.

Please send us lessons on moral perfection, I'm sure my church and other churches could use the material. My guess is that you don't know your congregation very well.

 

[U2LipstickBoy]

Bush only helps those that vote for him

In the 2000 election, Bush got votes from doctors, lawyers, elderly, executives, and people that were mainly white. Bush didn't get a lot of votes from minorities and he got zero votes from Canada and zero votes from Africa.

Bush is going to favor the people that voted for him. If you supported Bush in the election, Bush will now support you while he is in the White House. I voted for Bush because I know abortion is murder, I know that affirmative-action is racism, and I know that corporations are the bodies that employ Americans and make the products that Americans use. And Bush has rewarded corporations, because those are where his votes come from. Bush has also spoken out against abortion and spoken about the racist affirmative-action proposal. Bush has done an excellent job for people that supported him. If you didn't support Bush in 2000, odds are he isn't supporting you now. If you're not supporting Bush right now, he's not going to support you during his next 5 years as president.

Democracy is working just great in America

 

[ILuvLarryMullen]

nbcrusader


I think it's time to use that ignore button for the first time ever! logic obviously doesn't work so I would recommend others do the same if they don't want to be irritated all the time. It's nice to see we have at least one thing on this board that brings the right and the left together

 

[melon]

Re: a disease ?

Nobody at my Church has AIDS, because everyone at my church has values and faith, they don't engage in immoral premarital or homosexual relations and don't use IV drug needles.

You may think your trolling is funny, but I'm onto you.

Melon

 

[U2LipstickBoy]

,,,

just relax Melon, calm down