Springsteen Interview on "Vote for Change" Tour

[BluberryPoptart]

They're musicians, not political analysts. They are supporting a person, not articulating an issue.

While artists have let their opinion be known for years I have never seen a concert totally dedicated to the destruction of the political career of one man before. Even 'rock the vote' concerts were allegedly unbiased. Though we all knew the artists involved were probably left wing, they never told you who to vote for, they only said VOTE. That's the difference to me.

 

[BluberryPoptart]

On this same topic, while MTV and even Bono have gotten credit for getting Clinton elected, I don't think it was the main factor. George Bush I lost mainly because:

1. He backed out of his famous 'read my lips no new taxes' pledge

2. Ross Perot taking a large chunk of his fan base

3. A very poorly contructed campaign strategy that made him appear cheesy and even inept at times. I always felt Bush was presented wrong in the '92 campaign. It wasn't only him, he was fine in the '88 campaign. In '92 I would cringe and be embarrassed for him at times. Then after the election when his campaign manager married Clinton's, and it was untold until then they'd been together all along, I began to wonder if the stupid moves of the campaign were not intentional on her part in a plot with Clavell. You may call it a conspiracy theory, but I don't think it can be ruled out.

 

[kobayashi]

That's the difference to me.

well, these are different times. much of the media has polarized politically. there was no fox news channel in the early 90s either.

you seem to be going on a wide ranging rant about, and im generalizing what would appear to me to be your ideology based on little information so please provide me some leeway, actions of the 'left' intended to specifically oust george bush from office.

keep in mind its a two way street. while many actions of the 'right' may not be as overt, they are not neccessarily any less influential. bush, as the sitting president, enjoys an enormous advantage if only because of the exposure given to the position by itself. add to this a geopolitical climate which some believe needs stability moreso than better policy, and those attempting to remove bush from office are going to attempt to do so via unconventional methods.

the right has lots of money-they'll organize their own shindigs in the coming months.

but most of all, dont let it annoy you so much.

 

[BluberryPoptart]

there was no fox news channel in the early 90s either.

Ah but there was CNN and the three networks, all very biased to the left. Now there's one that's the other way and it's a crime. Come on.

the right has lots of money-they'll organize their own shindigs in the coming months.

I doubt it. Exactly who is going to play there, supporting 'the right' is career suicide in the entertainment industry

 

[kobayashi]

Ah but there was CNN and the three networks, all very biased to the left.

CNN was not biased to the left at the time. they are not now either but I would agree they have moved to the center in response to fox staking out the right.

i didn't mean shindigs in terms of a concert. they will get plenty of attention...thats what comes with money

 

[Klaus]

BluberryPoptart:
You call CNN left? Can you remember how they reported about the Iraq invasion in the first months?

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

supporting 'the right' is career suicide in the entertainment industry

I dunno...Ted Nugent's done all right for himself. And these aren't musicians, but from what I understand, Kelsey Grammar and Mel Gibson aren't exactly left-leaning, and they've done pretty nicely for themselves, too.

Also, I've understood that one big reason Clinton won in '92 is because a lot of young people were voting then and felt they could relate more to Clinton than Bush.

Angela

 

[BVS]

I have never understood the idea that artists, celebrities, etc shouldn't speak about politics because of who they are. It just makes no sence. Politics effects each and every one of us. We all do, or at least should, do our part in shaping politics. I hate the idea that politics should be left up to politicians! That idea is not only ignorant but it's also lazy. Politicians don't go to politician school. Their opinions on how things operate are not more qualified than yours or mine. In fact some celebrities have gone on to become politicians, oddly enough most of them republican. So why is it that an artist shouldn't be able to speak out against politician? This is probably the most important election in the last 30 years. Many believe that Bush is the worse president we've ever had, at least in our lifetimes. So yes they should do something about it. Just because someone doesn't like Vedder, or the Dixie Chicks, or Nugent, or Milli Vanilli it doesn't make the movement any less viable. The opinion that entertainers shouldn't dive into politics is about as equal to the opinion that women should stay in the kitchen.

 

[BluberryPoptart]

Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
Also, I've understood that one big reason Clinton won in '92 is because a lot of young people were voting then and felt they could relate more to Clinton than Bush.

yes, I'm sure you have heard that. Everyone has. That's why I posted my alternative list of what I consider to be the real factors. The MTV thing was a factor but nto the main one as music channels and forums would like to believe

Originally posted by Klaus
BluberryPoptart:
You call CNN left? Can you remember how they reported about the Iraq invasion in the first months?

Of course they did. It was big news at the time, and to a left wing reporter, not covering the story would be censorship, so they had to!

Originally posted by Koybayashi
CNN was not biased to the left at the time. they are not now either but I would agree they have moved to the center in response to fox staking out the right.

I hate to say bullshit, but bullshit. They were very well known for their left leaning slant even in the late 80's. I once thought of becoming a journalist, but people joked me, you'd never get hired, they only take left wing types. I have heard people for years say CNN tells stories the way they want the public to believe, from a liberal viewpoint. CNN has ALWAYS been left wing. hello? Ted Turner? Jane Fonda?

I also hear people every day complaining about the anti-Bush slant on the three networks. Someone told me just the other day he wished he had cable so he could hear something else but the left wing anti Bush propaganda spewed by the 3 networks.

So even if Fox is biased, we have a long way to go to balance things out.

 

[kobayashi]

bullshit

you have a very different understanding of the political spectrum than a lot of others.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

So even if Fox is biased, we have a long way to go to balance things out.

How many liberals are on talk radio again?

Also, I don't deny that those other reasons you posted played a factor, but I'd just always understood the main reason to be the one I'd mentioned. If that's not the case, however, then...*Shrugs*.

Also, to BVS's post. .

Angela

 

[BVS]

you have a very different understanding of the political spectrum than a lot of others.

This is the FYM understatement of the year!!!

 

[BluberryPoptart]

you have a very different understanding of the political spectrum than a lot of others.

and I'm sure that's a 'nice' way of calling me 'stupid' or 'wrong'

But I could say the same thing about you, as never in my life have I ever heard ANYONE BUT YOU say CNN was not biased to the left. They are, always have been, well known and accepted fact in the US.

 

[ThatGuy]

Not to throw another log on the fire, but I've noticed that CNN has started edging to the right ever since their ratings started slipping.

And whlle CNN may lean slightly left by American standards, they are relatively moderate. Mr. kobayashi may be speaking from this perspective.

Also I think Klaus was pointing out the kind of coverage CNN had during the Iraq invasion. If CNN is as left as Fox is to the right then CNN would have reported the war far differently.

 

[LoveTown]

actually BP I was watching CNN the other day and they were being VERY hard on Kerry and my first thought was "oh boy, CNN is going the way of Fox!" So, kobayashi isnt the only one that feels that way.

 

[BluberryPoptart]

For the record I have not had cable tv in almost 3 years, so I am speaking of the CNN I knew before that. It was always historically left. Again, hello? TED TURNER JANE FONDA station???

 

[ThatGuy]

BP, if you're going to get into media ownership you're not going to have much of a leg to stand on. I doubt the Viacom (owns CBS) General Electric (owns NBC) and Disney (owns ABC) are terribly left-leaning organizations.

 

[Diemen]

Waaaaaait a minute. You're continually arguing that CNN is far left, and you haven't even watched it in 3 years?? Solid argument.

 

[nbcrusader]

Left & right all depend on where you stand.

 

[ThatGuy]

That's why nbc thinks Fox News leans too far to the left.

 

[BluberryPoptart]

Waaaaaait a minute. You're continually arguing that CNN is far left, and you haven't even watched it in 3 years?? Solid argument.

Look, if you're going to ridicule my posts at least read the entire thing. I said, I was going by the CNN I remember, historically, all through the 90's and even the late 80's.

 

[Diemen]

I know you were saying that, but going by the CNN you remember doesn't exactly translate well to an argument about today's news.

 

[kobayashi]

Left & right all depend on where you stand.

it can.

but it can also depend on research looking at the viewpoints they host, the time they give to them and, just as importantly, items or perspectives that are never raised or are given curt attention.

one could argue none of these all news networks provided any liberal perspective on the second war in iraq, aside from the protests which i think we all would agree were rarely treated with the depth that they deserved. why was this so? for the simple fact that they are selling a product and the war was 'exciting'. what was the common classification of guest during this period? id be willing to put money down it was military retirees or 'experts' who presented a perspective which would be expected of them.

blueberry poptart, the political leanings of a broadcast owner are not neccessarily indicative of their media outlets chosen spectral position. editors, producers, commentators and journalists could all be said to play a bigger role but even these are superceded by the demand for a desired product.

as i said, imo, cnn has moved toward the center in response to fox's broad claim to the right. someone else remarked they perceived cnn moving more to the right, this could be because this is where they have determined the market has headed.

please dont ever put words in my mouth. i never suggested you or anyone else were lacking intelligence. thank you.

 

[Sherry Darling]

Sure glad Mr. Rockwell didn't keep politics out of his art...

His "The Problem We All Live With"

SD

 

[Popmartijn]

I saw this post on another forum and I really have nothing to add (although all the emphasis is mine). So here it is, courtesy of dannya:

sometimes the jokes just write themselves:


Mark McKinnon, the media director for the Bush campaign, said, "We think it's unfortunate these particular fine musicians have decided to affiliate with a hate-filled fringe group like MoveOn.'' Republicans have complained about a video briefly posted on MoveOn's Web site in December likening Mr. Bush to Hitler.

Mr. McKinnon added that Mr. Bush had drawn his own support from the entertainment world, citing stars like Lee Ann Womack, Kid Rock and Jessica Simpson.

 

[Sherry Darling]

Kid Rock and Jessican Simpson vs. REM, Dylan, Bonnie Raitt and ( ) Springsteen. Enough said.



SD

 

[verte76]

as i said, imo, cnn has moved toward the center in response to fox's broad claim to the right. someone else remarked they perceived cnn moving more to the right, this could be because this is where they have determined the market has headed.

I'm inclined to agree with this. The media, quite frankly, is not an institution I hold in particularly high regard. They are just trying to sell a product, and sometimes they are guilty of trying to sell some real . They're after the Almighty Buck. And it's not about being liberal or conservative, necessarily. I can get absolutely furious at liberals, and I'm even a lefty. I just wonder which faction of the Democratic Party some of these holes are from sometimes, and if they're not pushing their own agenda at someone else's expense because that other person is from another Party faction.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Schwarzenegger, Eastwood, Stallone and Willis - Republicans.

 

[speedracer]

Kid Rock and Jessican Simpson vs. REM, Dylan, Bonnie Raitt and ( ) Springsteen. Enough said.



SD

Let's also put Ted Nugent, Charlie Daniels and the Ramones on the right scale.

Not sure which side wins out intellectually, but I know which side I'd take in a cage match.

 

[sue4u2]

I don't see the media as "left" leaning or right leaning either. I just see sensational leaning. You would think the embarrassement they should still feel from the debacle of reporting in the 90's when the right was trying to bring down a President by any means possible, would have made a difference. The astronomical number of false reports fed continually to the press including: the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal and New York Time's (and CNN reported much of it also) is mind blowing. Of course they went back and retracted a great deal of these erroneous and down right false reports, but the damage was already done since many do not see the retractions, they just see or hear the original report. I would suggest one read The Hunting of the President by Joe Conason & Gene Lyons. It's been out for few years, but I just got around to reading it. Thing is if it's sensational, it get's reported no matter if it's right/left or just wrong.
As far as the right of artist to have a concert for change, I'm all for it! of course. Wish I could go, but they won't be any where near enough to my state.