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Old 12-06-2006, 06:04 PM   #136
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My apologies to our moderator. I posted the above before reading your admonishment. Please do not close the thread, it will not happen again.

Let the Mitt talk continue.
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Old 12-06-2006, 06:19 PM   #137
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Objectivity from the Boston Globe Editorial Staff

[Q]Romney, the consumer
By Steven A. Camarota | December 6, 2006

THE RECENT news story about apparently illegal immigrants employed by the landscaping company that tends Mitt Romney's yard seemed to suggest that he was at least partly to blame for this. But, the consumer, in this case the governor, is in no way responsible for business practices that go on behind the scenes. In fact, if the governor had asked the workers in question if they were illegal, he could have actually been sued under federal law for discrimination.

Think about it in a practical way. If consumers really are responsible in some way for businesses that hire illegals, why single out the landscaping company? What about the fast-food restaurants or video stores frequented by Massachusetts politicians and their employment of illegals? Given how many illegals work in poultry processing, there's also a good chance that the turkey most of us ate for Thanksgiving was processed by an illegal.

It is almost certain that every elected official, in fact every citizen in Massachusetts, has purchased a good or service provided by an illegal immigrant at some point. But this tells us nothing about the citizens of Massachusetts, all it says is that there are a lot of illegals in the state and in the country. To imagine a circumstance in which the consumer is at least morally culpable, one would have to have evidence that the buyer was aware of the violations. But there is no evidence the governor knew anything about the illegal workers.

If consumers are to blame for what goes on behind the scenes at the businesses they use, why focus only on illegal workers? Does the local gas station or hardware store follow the law with regard to age discrimination, minimum wage, maternity leave, or safety? While most businesses do follow these laws, there is no question that every person in Massachusetts, in fact every person in the country, has patronized a business that does not.

But this fact does not make consumers guilty of anything. Nor is it relevant to the public position of a political leader. Would anyone seriously suggest that an elected official who supports anti discrimination laws but regularly buys hamburgers from a restaurant he didn't know discriminates is a hypocrite? It would also be ridiculous to think that the leader in question should be prevented from taking a strong stand against discrimination in the future.

There are, of course, people to blame for such situations. In the case of illegal immigration, it's the illegals themselves and the businesses that don't follow the law and hire them. The lawn-care company in this case apparently did not make even a half-hearted attempt to follow the law.

The federal government is also to blame. Since Washington has failed to take even the most basic steps necessary to deter illegal immigration, even the most law-abiding consumer will unavoidably purchase services from businesses that employ illegal immigrants.

This incident is a reminder of something we already knew -- there's a huge number of illegals in the United States, including Massachusetts. Here are the numbers: There are an estimated 11 to 12 million illegals in the country, and this number is thought to grow by 400,000 to 500,000 a year. It is believed that 6 to 7 million of those illegal immgrants hold jobs.

It is almost certain that every elected official and citizen has used goods and services provided by illegals. Just as it's also true that all those involved in the debate over discrimination laws or fair labor practices have used goods and services provided by companies that don't follow the law in these areas.

But these situations tell us only that violations of the law are common. The central question is what to do about it.

Steven A. Camarota is director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, D.C.

[/Q]
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Old 12-06-2006, 07:06 PM   #138
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what's so funny about:

peace

love

and

good honest journalism?

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Old 12-06-2006, 09:46 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
what's so funny about:

peace

love

and

good honest journalism?

Now now brother Diamond.....

We apparently are not allowed to agree. It appears that whenever two more conservative minded posters band together it is called ganging up.



Who knew?

I count three on one directed at me, but, I guess being the intellectual giant I am perceived to be, it is even odds.

But seriously now, the Boston Globe...the very "liberal" media that Mitt criticized comes to his defense on this issue. Amazing, that the VERY "liberal" Globe is able to see through the political posturing, to point out that it is indeed an argument that is pretty much silly.

It makes me wonder if Mitt will flip on his statement about the Globe. I have to say....point for the Globe.
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Old 12-06-2006, 10:14 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
and in the 1960s in Michigan..how was George Romney elected; by only Mormons who lived there like 1% of the population?
A little history lesson:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Romney

Quote:
He led the Constitutional Convention that revised Michigan's Constitution from 1961 to 1962 and followed this up with a successful 1962 campaign for Governor of Michigan. Romney was a strong supporter of civil rights and was generally considered a moderate Republican, perhaps a bit to the right of Nelson Rockefeller, but well to the left of Barry Goldwater or Ronald Reagan.

After deciding to wait out the 1964 election, Romney announced he was a candidate for president in the 1968 election. Polls in 1967 showed him the leader among rank and file Republicans, especially among the "moderates." He seemed to have overcome the handicap of his Mormon religion being unpopular outside Utah.

On 31 August 1967 Governor Romney made a statement that ruined his chances for getting the nomination.[Johns 2000] In a taped interview with Lou Gordon of WKBD-TV in Detroit, Romney stated, "When I came back from Viet Nam [in November 1965], I'd just had the greatest brainwashing that anybody can get." He then shifted to opposing the war: "I no longer believe that it was necessary for us to get involved in South Vietnam to stop Communist aggression in Southeast Asia," he declared. Decrying the "tragic" conflict, he urged "a sound peace in South Vietnam at an early time." Thus Romney disavowed the war and reversed himself from his earlier stated belief that the war was "morally right and necessary." The connotations of brainwashing following the experiences of the American prisoners of war (highlighted by the film The Manchurian Candidate) made Romney's comments devastating to his status as the GOP front-runner. Republican Congressman Robert Stafford of Vermont sounded a common concern: "If you're running for the presidency," he asserted, "you are supposed to have too much on the ball to be brainwashed." (Johns 2000) At the National Convention Romney finished a weak 6th with only 50 votes on the first ballot (44 of Michigan's 48 plus 6 from Utah).
His son, apparently, has nothing in common with his father.
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Old 12-06-2006, 10:15 PM   #141
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so much for stereotyping Mormons.


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Old 12-06-2006, 10:22 PM   #142
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OK, I think everyone's made their stance on Mitt Romney and illegal immigrants clear by now...

So, what are some of these issues concerning education, crime, budgets, human services and business climate that keep getting touched on but not elaborated?
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Old 12-06-2006, 10:28 PM   #143
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that's not quite the issue ms yolland.

the issue was his electability and if an election were held today in FYM i think Mitt might just lose here, but just barely.

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Old 12-06-2006, 10:38 PM   #144
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Lets see what a great president Mr. Romney will be!!!!

Tourism boosters decry Romney cuts

By Peter J. Howe, Globe Staff | December 6, 2006

As Governor Mitt Romney tours East Asia to bulk up his foreign policy credentials for a possible presidential bid, he's coming under fire from a top Massachusetts tourism group for slashing $5 million in state funds for promoting the Bay State to international tourists.

Last month, as part of a package of over $400 million in budget cuts, Romney zeroed out funding for Tourism Massachusetts , a Boston non profit organization charged with promoting Massachusetts abroad, including in the countries Romney is visiting this week, China, Japan, and South Korea.

William H. MacDougall , chief executive of Tourism Massachusetts, whose promotional efforts include advertising abroad and Internet videos promoting various parts of the state, said in a prepared statement: "The countries that he is visiting in Asia represent a significant source of visitor arrivals into Massachusetts, and it is unfortunate that he is carrying the message that our state does not welcome them."

Joining a growing chorus of Romney critics who accuse the governor of using Beacon Hill policy decisions to impress voters in other states, MacDougall said: "Unfortunately this is just another example of an administration more interested in promoting the career of one man rather than the economic health of this state."

International tourists, MacDougall added, spend more than $1.4 billion annually in Massachusetts, and he pointedly noted that tourism is "a vital component of virtually every state's economy, including New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Iowa" -- the first three major 2008 presidential primary and caucus states.

Romney spokesman Eric Fehrnstrom defended the governor's cutbacks, saying in an e-mail that the $5 million funding was "a particularly egregious example of legislative pork" and "an insider deal" MacDougall struck with legislative leaders.

Before the vetoes were issued, Fehrnstrom said, Massachusetts was spending 10 times as much per international visitor as it spent on domestic visitors, nearly $3 for every Massachusetts tourist from other countries, but international tourism has been declining, not growing.

"To this day, we don't know what Mr. MacDougall does with that money, and he has not been effective in increasing foreign tourism," Fehrnstrom said.

The $5 million budget item for Tourism Massachusetts was among $26.6 million in legislative tourism funds Romney vetoed this summer, legislators restored by overriding his veto, and Romney again cut last month.

The funds include more than 120 different pet projects for legislators, including earmarked funds for a Methuen "geriatric safety program," a gazebo in Auburn, a Holyoke park merry-go-round, and the Old Firehouse Museum in South Hadley.
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Old 12-06-2006, 10:39 PM   #145
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Social workers, providers protest Romney budget cuts

December 6, 2006

BOSTON --Social workers and human service providers angry at Gov. Mitt Romney's decision to cut $425 million from the state budget last month converged on Beacon Hill on Wednesday to demand he restore the money.

Romney said the cuts were needed to balance the budget, but those who work with the mentally ill, homeless and those battling substance abuse say the cuts made life more difficult for the state's most vulnerable.

"This is not a joke," Michael Weekes of the Massachusetts Council of Human Service Providers told a rally of about 1,000 protesters. "People that have abused children, homeless families, people with mental and physical disabilities -- they are not pork, they are people."

The rally included a giant inflatable rat and an activist dressed in a Grinch costume meant to portray Romney.

Romney, who was in South Korea on Wednesday, has already restored about $41 million of the cuts after state revenues for November were stronger than anticipated, but activists say that's not enough.

Romney spokesman Eric Fehrnstrom said there's a constituency for every line item in the budget, but it's up to Romney to look at the big picture and make sure the budget is balanced.

"Fiscal discipline has been a hallmark of Gov. Romney's administration and he intends on maintaining it until his last day in office," Fehrnstrom said.

Among the cuts they would still like to see restored is $28 million for raises for low-paid social service workers and $844,000 for child and adolescent mental health services.

If Romney doesn't act, they are hoping that incoming Democratic Gov.-elect Deval Patrick restores the money.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...y_budget_cuts/
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Old 12-06-2006, 10:41 PM   #146
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Yea and Reagan did such a fantastic job while in office.

Romney reaches for Reagan touch

By Scott Helman, Globe Staff | November 25, 2006

The day after the midterm elections, Governor Mitt Romney, reflecting on the GOP's punishing losses, issued a clarion call to conservatives: "We must return to the common-sense Reagan Republican ideals."

Three days later, at a State House Veterans Day ceremony, Romney invoked the former president again, saying, "As Ronald Reagan once said, 'I have seen four wars during my lifetime and none of them began because America was too strong.' "

And then last Friday, asked by a Fox News interviewer whether he was running for president, Romney said he was giving it some serious thought, because the stakes were so high. "We're going to have to make sure that we have the kind of Reagan optimism that America's looking for," he said.

Romney's repeated references to the nation's 40th president in two weeks illustrate how the governor, as he builds toward a 2008 presidential bid, is increasingly trying to cast himself in the Reagan mold -- as a patriotic, small-government conservative from outside the Beltway who's bent on repelling taxes, moral relativism, and foreign threats.

Like many Republicans, Romney has long described Reagan as one of his heroes, but as the governor's White House hopes have gained steam, his admiration has turned to emulation: Romney seems to be channeling the former president's conservative convictions, his hopeful message, and even his witty, folksy style of connecting with voters from South Carolina to Southern California.

There are many similarities between the two: Reagan and Romney portrayed themselves as bulwarks against the perils of liberalism in their home states -- Reagan in California, Romney in Massachusetts. Both have benefited from their Hollywood looks. Both have had experience in working with Democratic legislatures.

"Reagan was able to run against Washington, including people in his own party in Washington, by talking about what he achieved as governor and saying he would take those ideas to Washington," said Republican strategist Charlie Black, who was a senior Reagan adviser. "Romney can do the same thing."

Like other potential GOP candidates, Romney is also negotiating a delicate relationship with the legacy of President Bush, who is respected by Republicans for his tough tactics in fighting terrorism but continues to be plagued by low job-approval ratings. Reagan's legacy, by contrast, is seen by Republicans as largely unassailable.

While Republican presidential hopefuls routinely try to claim the mantle of Reagan conservatism, Black said, Romney can make a good case, in large part because of his charisma and his ability to give a stirring speech. Black said he hears observers of the 2008 race describe Romney as "Reagan esque."

Romney's message on the stump often carries echoes of Reagan, who died in 2004.

Consider the acceptance speech Reagan gave in July 1980 after he won the Republican nomination for president

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar..._reagan_touch/
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Old 12-06-2006, 11:29 PM   #147
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End-of Presidency Job Approval Ratings
Bill Clinton (2001) 65%
Ronald Reagan (1989) 64
Dwight Eisenhower (1961) 59
John F. Kennedy (1963) 63
George Bush (1993) 56
Gerald Ford (1977) 53
Lyndon Johnson (1969) 49
Jimmy Carter (1981) 34
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Old 12-06-2006, 11:52 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
that's not quite the issue ms yolland.

the issue was his electability and if an election were held today in FYM i think Mitt might just lose here, but just barely.
If an election were held today, period, he wouldn't get it.

Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen

More than a third of registered voters -- 35 percent -- say they wouldn't vote for a Mormon for president, the latest Bloomberg/Los Angeles Times poll finds. That's considerably more than say they wouldn't vote for a Catholic, Jew or evangelical Christian. Only a Muslim gets a higher negative response.

Among all respondents, 37 percent say they wouldn't vote for a Mormon. More than two in five Democrats say they wouldn't do so, while about a third of both Republicans and independents say they wouldn't. Females are slightly more negative toward a Mormon candidate than males.

``It's a sign that this is going to be a factor in Romney's campaign,'' said Scott Rasmussen, an independent pollster and president of Rasmussen Research in Ocean Grove, New Jersey.
This doesn't include people who would vote for a Mormon, but won't vote for Romney based on his record or whatever else they disagree with either.
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Old 12-07-2006, 09:48 AM   #149
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Like that famous phrase, "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy", Romney is no Ronald Reagan.
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Old 12-07-2006, 03:10 PM   #150
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