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Old 10-05-2006, 09:00 PM   #61
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Originally posted by martha


I'll ask them about parents taking less and less responsibility for their kids, I'll ask them about teenagers having guns while the gun lobby ensures their access to them, I'll ask them about media overload on violence, I'll ask them about kids sitting unsupervised in front of their televisions for hours a day.

And thanks for assuming that I'm under 40.
I agree with you as much as I agree with the Columbine father. Kids aren't any worse today, absolutely it's lack of responsible parental guidance (including manners for Pete's sake) along with a constant bombardment with garbage and filth simply unimaginable in my childhood. That's not to say, however, that a parent's job isn't made all the more harder when schools or society discourage the very same values a parent may be trying to instill into their child.

And thanks for not grading my grammer.

Make that grammar. Spellcheck, now there's something I could have used as a kid.
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Old 10-05-2006, 09:01 PM   #62
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that a parent's job isn't made all the more harder when schools... discourage the very same values a parent may trying to instill into their child.
Like what? What am I discouraging that you're trying to instill?


I want concrete examples.
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Old 10-05-2006, 11:03 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha


Like what? What am I discouraging that you're trying to instill?


I want concrete examples.


you know, i'd rather a more immoral society so long as students are learning the cold, hard, amoral facts instead of being fed feel-good fairy tales.
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Old 10-05-2006, 11:17 PM   #64
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Like what? What am I discouraging that you're trying to instill?


I want concrete examples.
You and your damn science!!!!!
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Old 10-05-2006, 11:20 PM   #65
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I'm not sure how useful analysis of social values trends is for making sense of school massacres, as opposed to gang-related violence or even the sort of thing where one student shoots or stabs another over some argument between the two of them. I don't know that the psychosocial factors at work are the same across these different types of incidents. School violence has actually declined overall during the last decade, not hugely so but significantly (a 13% decrease in homicides, for example). And it's not as if Columbine was the first incident of its kind--there were 9 multiple-shooting incidents (in the US) in the 90s prior to that (spring of '99); 6 during the 80s; 2 during the 70s; and the deadliest US school massacre to date took place in Michigan in 1927. Media coverage of such events sure seems to have increased dramatically since Columbine, though; when I Googled to see what had happened prior to that I found I'd never even heard of more than a few--actually, I couldn't recall any of the 80s ones, even though that's when I was in high school. I can't help wondering if this kind of saturation coverage is itself a contributor to the problem; it really does get grotesquely voyeuristic after awhile, and the obsessive scrutiny of the specifics of the perpetrators' plans seems almost sublimating and worryingly likely to "inspire" the sociopathically inclined.
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Old 10-05-2006, 11:28 PM   #66
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I'm not sure how useful analysis of social values trends is for making sense of school massacres, as opposed to gang-related violence or even the sort of thing where one student shoots or stabs another over some argument between the two of them.
And these last two shooters were grown men, strangers to the school, not students who were corrupted by the humanist teaching going on at the school. One might even say these men were products of the "good old days" so pined for by some here.
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Old 10-05-2006, 11:31 PM   #67
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Like what? What am I discouraging that you're trying to instill?


I want concrete examples.
That's a little tough. It would depend on which grade, in which school district in which part of the country. And I wouldn't place the blame on teachers so much on as administrators and educational bureaucrats. They choose the curriculum and decide which books to buy. Here's a few "values-related" areas that spring to mind.

The introduction of sexual material to younger and younger children in the name of "health" or "aids education." Some districts are really pushing the limit in my opinion.

"Intelligent design."-- Alternatives should at least be discussed. (Science brought me to God so this is a personal point with me)

Multiculturalism-- Don't get me wrong, I think a foreign language class should be encouraged, I'm talking about the anti-Western bias and the subtle rewriting of history that's crept into some text books. "Taking God out of schools" is about more than just school prayer. The role of religion in our county's history has really been de-emphasized in recent years.

The banning of Dodgeball. Life isn't fair either.
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Old 10-05-2006, 11:33 PM   #68
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Indy if those are values that you believe many parents value but schools don't pay attention to, then shouldn't the PARENTS just find a school that DOES teach those "values"? Those are obviously values from a Christian perspective, so parents have the option to send their kids to a Christian school, if those values are SO important....
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Old 10-05-2006, 11:42 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500

"Intelligent design."-- Alternatives should at least be discussed. (Science brought me to God so this is a personal point with me)
Teach it in philosophy class. Or a religion class.

Not in a science class.
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Old 10-05-2006, 11:54 PM   #70
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Originally posted by INDY500


That's a little tough. It would depend on which grade, in which school district in which part of the country. And I wouldn't place the blame on teachers so much on as administrators and educational bureaucrats. They choose the curriculum and decide which books to buy. Here's a few "values-related" areas that spring to mind.
Golly! I should give you the specifics of my school site so you can assist me in improving my award-winning school district! What a help you must be to your own children's teachers. They must just love to see the phone message from you on their mailbox at the end of another long day countering the values you've tried to instill in your kids.

Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500


The introduction of sexual material to younger and younger children in the name of "health" or "aids education." Some districts are really pushing the limit in my opinion.

"Intelligent design."-- Alternatives should at least be discussed. (Science brought me to God so this is a personal point with me)

Multiculturalism-- Don't get me wrong, I think a foreign language class should be encouraged, I'm talking about the anti-Western bias and the subtle rewriting of history that's crept into some text books. "Taking God out of schools" is about more than just school prayer. The role of religion in our county's history has really been de-emphasized in recent years.

The banning of Dodgeball. Life isn't fair either.
Hmm. So these are the things that make crazy white men and boys want to kill little girls and their principals and classmates? These are the things schools teach that drive these whackjobs to kill? The parents of thses kids (and grown men) tried, but the schools failed them in a game of dogdeball?!
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Old 10-06-2006, 06:57 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500

The banning of Dodgeball. Life isn't fair either.
SO schools should allow Dodgeball, increasing the chance of injury, liability, and lawsuits to the school?

Sorry, Dodgeball is banned because of lawsuits, not because the school wanted to.
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Old 10-06-2006, 10:07 AM   #72
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i used to love Dodgeball. i can't believe it's banned.

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Old 10-06-2006, 11:00 AM   #73
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My kids still play a form of it.

But it's voluntary.
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Old 10-06-2006, 12:11 PM   #74
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i loved "Burn Ball/Butt's Up" as well.

where you throw a tennis ball at the wall, and you have to grab it with one hand, and if you drop it you have to run and touch the wall before someone else grabs the ball and throws it to the wall (or hits you) and if the ball hits the wall before you do you have to stand in front of the wall and someone gets to peg you in the ass with said tennis ball.

ah, 6th grade memories ... i was uncharacteristically aggressive playing Burn Ball ...
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Old 10-06-2006, 01:42 PM   #75
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Butt's Up isn't allowed at our school. Imagine the students' hidden delight at hearing their teachers say the phrase "Butt's Up."
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