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Old 11-02-2006, 10:38 AM   #121
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I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking me who I'm holding her up against, when making the comparison, or are you asking for a list of her qualities and behaviours that I feel make her moral?
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Old 11-02-2006, 11:31 AM   #122
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Originally posted by VintagePunk
I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking me who I'm holding her up against, when making the comparison, or are you asking for a list of her qualities and behaviours that I feel make her moral?
The list. And the source where it mentions this list of choices are in fact considered moral.
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Old 11-02-2006, 11:35 AM   #123
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I should have known better than attempt to engage in conversation with you, when you're one of the main offenders of the copy-paste scripture quoting style of discussion, and the very subject of this thread.

Of course, your source is the bible, so according to you, you win by default, because you have this man-made tome around which you base your life.

I'm out, I'm not even going to attempt rational conversation with you.
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Old 11-02-2006, 12:11 PM   #124
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Ones of positive inquiry and free thought perhaps? An interest in the natural world and it's mechanisms is another trait to foster. Faith is the most overrated supposed virtue.
Curiosity and being knowledgeable are certainly positive traits, I would include them among prudence. You perhaps downplay the need for faith as it is a theological virtue of Christianity (all though certainly essential to most religions).
The seven virtues of Western thought being;

Cardinal Virtues
-- Prudence (common sense)
-- Temperance (self-control)
-- Justice (fairness)
-- Fortitude (courage)
Theological Virtues
-- Faith (believe in a Greater)
-- Hope (looking forward)
-- Charity (love, forgiveness)
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Old 11-02-2006, 12:29 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally posted by VintagePunk
I should have known better than attempt to engage in conversation with you, when you're one of the main offenders of the copy-paste scripture quoting style of discussion, and the very subject of this thread.

Of course, your source is the bible, so according to you, you win by default, because you have this man-made tome around which you base your life.

I'm out, I'm not even going to attempt rational conversation with you.
Vintage, you're misunderstanding what Aeon is saying. He's basically just asking how you know her morals are good. He's asking what is the standard by which you judge whether she has good morals or not. Aeon will freely admit that his standard by which he judges morals is the Bible, but he wants to know what you use, how you decide what's moral or not.
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Old 11-02-2006, 01:39 PM   #126
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Originally posted by VintagePunk
I'm out, I'm not even going to attempt rational conversation with you.
You are now my role model.
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Old 11-02-2006, 09:01 PM   #127
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Maycocksean, I'm not sure what is being said here. Could you please elaborate?
What I meant was that the Chinese atheists that I've encountered don't seem to have the anger against faith or belief that is often found in Western atheists, who often have a lot of bitterness due to negative experiences with people who claimed to be Christians (the "nasty Christians" I referred to) whether it was an oppressive church, judgemental Sunday school teachers, or someone like the lady that dazzlingamy described in her most recent post.

The Chinese atheist doesn't seem to have that baggage. At least that I've observed.

Which in a way makes them more open-minded to faith.
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Old 11-02-2006, 09:59 PM   #128
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Originally posted by maycocksean


What I meant was that the Chinese atheists that I've encountered don't seem to have the anger against faith or belief that is often found in Western atheists, who often have a lot of bitterness due to negative experiences with people who claimed to be Christians (the "nasty Christians" I referred to) whether it was an oppressive church, judgemental Sunday school teachers, or someone like the lady that dazzlingamy described in her most recent post.

The Chinese atheist doesn't seem to have that baggage. At least that I've observed.

Which in a way makes them more open-minded to faith.
That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.
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Old 11-03-2006, 12:51 AM   #129
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Originally posted by AEON


I do not doubt you are correct. I am just curious – since you made a comparative statement (“the most”) - according to which collection of morals are you comparing your child against?
Quote:
The list. And the source where it mentions this list of choices are in fact considered moral.
AKA: The only morals that are worth anything are those that come out of the Bible.

AKA: My morals are better than your morals.


How nice.
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Old 11-03-2006, 01:11 AM   #130
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OH PLEASE. Can we NOT have the 'morals come from the bible so if you don't believe in the bible why are you nice? you should just go around in your own filth killing everyone' speech. It's completely baseless and annoying.

Do you think the people before the bible was written had no morals? that they all walked around raping The egyptians seemed to go alright.

I'm a GOOD person. I am nice, and considerate. I'm sure religious people are too. But it doesn't mean god invented morals and thats where society gets them from. So please don't even try that argument again cause it DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
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Old 11-03-2006, 01:44 AM   #131
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Originally posted by dazzlingamy
OH PLEASE. Can we NOT have the 'morals come from the bible so if you don't believe in the bible why are you nice? you should just go around in your own filth killing everyone' speech. It's completely baseless and annoying.

Do you think the people before the bible was written had no morals? that they all walked around raping The egyptians seemed to go alright.

I'm a GOOD person. I am nice, and considerate. I'm sure religious people are too. But it doesn't mean god invented morals and thats where society gets them from. So please don't even try that argument again cause it DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
Quote:
"All sects are different, because they come from men; morality is everywhere the same, because it comes from God."
--Voltaire

"Human beings, all over the earth, have this curious idea that they ought to behave in a certain way, and can't really get rid of it."
--CS Lewis

"A just law is a man-made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law. To put it in the terms of Saint Thomas Aquinas, an unjust law is a human law that is not rooted in eternal and natural law."
--Martin Luther King
Made sense to these guys.
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Old 11-03-2006, 03:34 AM   #132
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Originally posted by INDY500


Curiosity and being knowledgeable are certainly positive traits, I would include them among prudence. You perhaps downplay the need for faith as it is a theological virtue of Christianity (all though certainly essential to most religions).
The seven virtues of Western thought being;

Cardinal Virtues
-- Prudence (common sense)
-- Temperance (self-control)
-- Justice (fairness)
-- Fortitude (courage)
Theological Virtues
-- Faith (believe in a Greater)
-- Hope (looking forward)
-- Charity (love, forgiveness)
Those virtues seem to be the products of romanticised romanticised Christendom but western thought predates Christianity and threads such individualism are consistent markers.

Rationalism, empiricism and humanism seem to be the virtues of the modern age and they do depart from those professed so intently in Christianity. I take exception to the idea that faith is a critical virtue in that it entails a willfull ignorance - acceptance in the wholesale absence of evidence - and I can't see how that is to be desired or aspired to.
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Old 11-03-2006, 04:20 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally posted by dazzlingamy
OH PLEASE. Can we NOT have the 'morals come from the bible so if you don't believe in the bible why are you nice? you should just go around in your own filth killing everyone' speech. It's completely baseless and annoying.

Do you think the people before the bible was written had no morals? that they all walked around raping The egyptians seemed to go alright.

I'm a GOOD person. I am nice, and considerate. I'm sure religious people are too. But it doesn't mean god invented morals and thats where society gets them from. So please don't even try that argument again cause it DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
I've always been frustrated by the "god put those morals within you even if you won't admit it" spiels always said in such a sickly sweet condescending tone too. When it comes right down to it, does it matter where they came from? All of us can believe whatever the hell we want, none of us can prove it. If you enjoy trying to prove it that's fine. Everyone needs a hobby. But proof of various god-stuff? That's why it's called faith -- you can't prove it. You also can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt some type of god thing doesn't exist.

It all seems rather pointless. Amusing sometimes, that's true (which is why I'm reading and posting in some of these threads), but ultimately pointless.
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Old 11-03-2006, 04:23 AM   #134
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frickin' double post.
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Old 11-03-2006, 08:29 AM   #135
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Originally posted by INDY500
Made sense to these guys.
You are consistent in this thread, I'll give you that. A few quotes from other people, and that's all the opinion you have. Nothing from you yourself that can be discussed, no personal thoughts, just pithy quotes from the past.
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