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Old 11-10-2004, 02:55 PM   #31
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
So you would oppose affirmative action then?
Nope. If Bush wants to appoint a Hispanic that doesn't approve torture and takes the death penalty for the grave issue it is and nothing something to be proud of, I will be more than happy to support him. Same with the Enron deal. I don't like the caucasian Kenneth Lay, Jeffrey Skilling or the Hispanic, white, black or other lawyers that defend them.
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Old 11-10-2004, 02:58 PM   #32
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So we're tossing out the whole "innocent until proven guilty" bit, then?
No, the individual is arrested on the basis of signals intelligence, maybe an e-mail. Then he is arrested and his computer seized, on the computer full technical specs for a nuclear weapon are found as well as evidence that the required components were procured. Through rigorous interrogation it is discovered that the bomb has been completed and will be placed in a major city but not where or when, this guy is defnitely knows more than he is letting on, thousands if not hundreds of thousands of lives are at risk - would it not be allright to have a legal avenue to get approval for a very specific means to get them to talk, like having a tooth drilled without anaesthetic or a sterilised needle underneath a fingernail. This would be done with judicial oversight, the evidence for and against would be weighed up and the actions warranted, with full accountability.
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Old 11-10-2004, 02:59 PM   #33
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I see nothing wrong with that - in very, very particular circumstances to cause brief and intense pain to a single guilty man that he may stop at any moment by releasing critical information is better than sitting back and waiting for thousands to be murdered.

I think you watch too many movies. In real life, it's extraordinarily unlikely that we'd have a situation like that. The whole "torture one guy to save thousands" thing just doesn't happen.

Think about it.
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Old 11-10-2004, 03:02 PM   #34
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Ticking time bomb terrorist is a real scenario, the specific there is improbable but there are situations when hands are tied. I have thought about it, and even if the potential is one in one billion is it not better to have accountability for actions.
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Old 11-10-2004, 03:02 PM   #35
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So we get rid of Ashcroft finally and we blow an opportunity by getting another right-wing texas freak nutjob.
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Old 11-10-2004, 03:08 PM   #36
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Originally posted by Sherry Darling
Sure thing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Jun13.html

SD
This is a little different than Sharky's statement:

Quote:
In the 2002 memo, written for the CIA and addressed to White House Counsel Alberto R. Gonzales
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Old 11-10-2004, 04:18 PM   #37
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And the Beginnings of Bipartisian Support

Bush attorney general pick is Alberto Gonzales

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In a news release, Sen. Charles Schumer, D-New York, said, "It's encouraging that the president has chosen someone less polarizing. We will have to review his record very carefully, but I can tell you already he's a better candidate than John Ashcroft."
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Old 11-10-2004, 04:18 PM   #38
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Try again. Here's a quote from para 1 of the article I linked to

"Today washingtonpost.com is posting a copy of the Aug. 1, 2002, memorandum (PDF) "Re: Standards of Conduct for Interrogation under 18 U.S.C. 2340-2340A," from the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel for Alberto R. Gonzales, counsel to President Bush."

Here's a direct link to the memo itself, in addition, which was, as the article notes in para 1, FROM our new AG's office.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...mo20020801.pdf

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Old 11-10-2004, 04:22 PM   #39
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Again, it states at the top of the memorandum for, not from.
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Old 11-10-2004, 04:23 PM   #40
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This disturbs me, it really does.
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Old 11-10-2004, 04:24 PM   #41
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May I inquire who would others consider to be a suitable appointment to the post?
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Old 11-10-2004, 04:26 PM   #42
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Eugene Volokh
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Old 11-10-2004, 04:29 PM   #43
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NBC, you're not getting it. It was FOR Gonzales BY someone in his office. You think anyone in his status writes his own memos? LOL. The Post article clearly states F R O M his office to the President, as I quoted.

It disturbes me too, Verte.

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Old 11-10-2004, 04:32 PM   #44
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Originally posted by Sherry Darling
NBC, you're not getting it. It was FOR Gonzales BY someone in his office. You think anyone in his status writes his own memos? LOL. The Post article clearly states F R O M his office to the President, as I quoted.

It disturbes me too, Verte.

SD
So, we can all breath easy now. Now we are all clear, someone else wrote the memo. So much for Sharky's statement.
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Old 11-10-2004, 04:36 PM   #45
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Originally posted by Sherry Darling
It disturbes me too, Verte.

SD
Thanks!
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