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Old 02-17-2004, 02:39 PM   #46
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Originally posted by Lilac
Do any of you really like him and trust him or is it just the 'anybody but Bush' thing? Well, you all have your reasons. But me, I can't force myself to pull the lever for a man who approves of the slaughter of the unborn (for reasons other than rape and incest and health) That's my cause. Abortion is not a 'choice' any more than it's a 'choice' to shoot somebody in tthe head. It's cold blooded, premeditated murder and I won't vote for anyone who supports it. But unlike the rest of you, I don't believe in the 'anybody but' thing because it's a stupid and irresponisible way to choose your next leader. So I will sit home on election day and ignore the TV and give up on this nation.
I can't speak for anyone else, but personally although I don't like Kerry as much as some of the democrats who were trying to get the nomination, but I think he would be an awful lot better than Bush. People who are saying "anyone but Bush" aren't just saying it because they have a vague dislike of Bush, there are many people who feel that he's made enormous mistakes since taking office and are scared of what he'll do if he gets another four years.

Besides, it isn't literally anyone but Bush. As much as I dislike what he's done, if he were standing against a fascist then I'd actually vote for him in order to keep someone who would be worse out. (Of course that's completely hypothetical since I don't even live in the US!) It's just that for many people, Bush has been such a disaster as President that virtually any Democratic nominee would be better than him.

I know what you mean about feeling so strongly about an issue that you couldn't support a candidate who you disagreed with. Right now I feel like that about university funding, which is a really big issues where I live. No matter how much I agree with a candidate on other issues, if they voted to stop people from less well-off backgrounds going to university then I can't bring myself to support them.
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Old 02-17-2004, 03:09 PM   #47
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Some people do have such strong feelings about a particular issue that they can't vote for anyone who disagrees with them about this. For many people it's abortion. For some people it's their particular position on Iraq, either pro or con Bush policies. For some it's gay rights. And then there are some who really think Bush is not good for this country and they believe Kerry will be better. Some Democrats out there preferred Wesley Clark or Dick Gephardt but since both of these candidates have endorsed Kerry so will they. Some diehard Kucinich supporters won't switch to Kerry and will probably write in Kucinich in November. Political persuasions are like colors, everyone has colors they like and colors they can't stand. It's all in the eyes of the beholder--or the voter.
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Old 02-17-2004, 03:11 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lilac
Do any of you really like him and trust him or is it just the 'anybody but Bush' thing? Well, you all have your reasons. But me, I can't force myself to pull the lever for a man who approves of the slaughter of the unborn (for reasons other than rape and incest and health) That's my cause. Abortion is not a 'choice' any more than it's a 'choice' to shoot somebody in tthe head. It's cold blooded, premeditated murder and I won't vote for anyone who supports it. But unlike the rest of you, I don't believe in the 'anybody but' thing because it's a stupid and irresponisible way to choose your next leader. So I will sit home on election day and ignore the TV and give up on this nation.
Thanks for the sermon, but I think it irresponsible to vote on a canidate based only upon one issue.
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Old 02-17-2004, 03:16 PM   #49
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Especially when it is an issue that both a GOP President and a GOP Congress are still no closer to eliminating than any past president. It's an issue that they pander to the religious right with, nothing more and nothing less.

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Old 02-17-2004, 05:34 PM   #50
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Melon, you're right, I have noticed that myself. All of you make good points and I thank you for being so nice about it. I was afraid to post my views because I didn't want to get flamed. But I don't see any candidates I trust who deserve to win. In a country of 270 million what a disgrace
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Old 02-17-2004, 05:40 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lilac
Melon, you're right, I have noticed that myself. All of you make good points and I thank you for being so nice about it. I was afraid to post my views because I didn't want to get flamed. But I don't see any candidates I trust who deserve to win. In a country of 270 million what a disgrace
You shouldn't be afraid to get flamed. I *try* not to flame people just because of honest beliefs, even if I don't agree. I'm not perfect, therefore I'll post the (at least) occasional stupid note. It's not right to flame people for an honest and well-informed opinion, including those with which I do not agree. I just fd up big time. I try not to do it, honest!
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Old 02-17-2004, 06:07 PM   #52
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I have no political party preference because I'm not really a political person, but my dislike for George Bush has made me somewhat of one during election year. Kerry is a solid Democratic candidate, and he will make the race very interesting. However, is it enough to beat Bush? A lot of people disdain Bush but people dont mention that he has $$$$, he has a record amount of campaign finances from contributions, etc. (from wealthy companies..coincidences?). And he has a lot of the upper class on his side because his economic plan only favors them so thats a problem because wealth plays a huge role in everything important in this world.

I think Kerry can win, people just have to go out and vote. I'm a Dutch citizen but I've been living in Washington DC for 8 years and I cant vote, but it's Kerry for 2004!

It's amazing to me that Clinton got more bad press for lying about sexual encounters with a younger women then a president who lied about why we should invade a country. There are no WMD, Saddam was a D**ck who deserves to serve a life sentence in jail and then in hell, but you didnt hear about him 10 years after the gulf war until we invaded Afghanistan and then he was a big problem again suddenly. I believe we could have taken the billions of dollars we're spending in Iraq every month and helped our economy out a little bit instead of fighting a war which we find out had no concrete basis, which costs our country the lives of hundreds of 18 and 19 year olds every week.

And the best excuse Bush uses for this war now is Saddam is a bad man and the world is a better place, thats why we invaded Iraq. Well, how about in Africa where thousands of people get slaughtered in some countries for no good reason, how come thats not on the presidential agenda? $$$$$ maybe? Go into those countries and get rid of those bad men if its so important to you, and give some money to Bono while you're at it to drop the debt.

I like to consider myself an American, even though I'm Dutch and Amsterdam will always be my hometown. It's sad to go back home to Europe and have a lot of the public disliking Americans because Americans are awesome people that are just represented poorly sometimes by the goverment's foreign policies and actions. Some light should go off in our heads when the WHOLE WORLD doesnt want you to do something. The sad thing is I supported Bush in 2000, I thought he would have made a good president, but he let me down. Damn, I guess I am a political person.....
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Old 02-17-2004, 09:08 PM   #53
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I truly didn't care about politics until my husband got me interested. Now, it's too important to ignore. I hated to see Bush weasel his way into office, and seeing what he's done while there makes my blood run cold. We must see Kerry into office, or I fear we'll be regretting it for a long, long time. Get out and vote, dammit! Get your friends and neighbors, too.

IT'S UP TO US
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Old 02-18-2004, 06:15 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lilac
All of you make good points and I thank you for being so nice about it. I was afraid to post my views because I didn't want to get flamed. But I don't see any candidates I trust who deserve to win. In a country of 270 million what a disgrace
I'm glad you posted what you think - it'd be a boring forum if people couldn't do that. I think most of us try to avoid "flaming" people because of what they honestly believe. Sure it's different when you get idiots like LipstickGuy who things just to be provocative, but if someone is just posting their honest and well-informed opinion then I don't see why they should get flamed for it.
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Old 02-18-2004, 09:30 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by najeena
I truly didn't care about politics until my husband got me interested. Now, it's too important to ignore. I hated to see Bush weasel his way into office, and seeing what he's done while there makes my blood run cold. We must see Kerry into office, or I fear we'll be regretting it for a long, long time. Get out and vote, dammit! Get your friends and neighbors, too.

IT'S UP TO US

Word to your mother!

sd
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Old 02-18-2004, 09:45 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lilac
Melon, you're right, I have noticed that myself. All of you make good points and I thank you for being so nice about it. I was afraid to post my views because I didn't want to get flamed. But I don't see any candidates I trust who deserve to win. In a country of 270 million what a disgrace
This is part of the reason why I reckon America should have compulsory voting. With the knowledge that 270 million people are forced to come to vote, whether it is kicking and screaming, or skipping eagerly, it will bring out more of a choice and force your country's leaders to be more accountable in a way. Someone in here once said a non vote speaks volumes. I agree with that to an extent, but what if you misread the silence in lack of support? And so what, if you can weed out those who are then forced to listen to what the majority of 270 million people want isn't that better?

And PS, Tyler, the fine itself is only about $50 for not voting, but the legal costs make it about $550 by the time you're done not voting. If anyone chooses not to, they really need a darn good reason!
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Old 02-18-2004, 10:15 AM   #57
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Bush & Kerry both members of the satanic Skull & Bones aka the order of death.
Doesnt matter who gets in , it will be more of the same.
If no one knows what skull & bones is, do a search online, very scary stuff.
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Old 02-18-2004, 08:19 PM   #58
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Here's a link to a story Amy Goodman did on this on Democracy Now:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0122-10.htm
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Old 02-19-2004, 10:59 AM   #59
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That's screaming to be Photoshopped.
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Old 02-23-2004, 12:34 AM   #60
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One of the reason we still got the dangerous howard down here as our "democratic dictator" is I believe a rsuslt of compulosry voting.

You get a lotta people voting who don't really care who wins and who loses, but feel obligated to make their vote a legitimate one, and more often than not, opt for the conservative option of sticking with their current leader. This is often because they have limited knowldege about what impact the current government has had on the country during their leadership term. (Eg, those who dont know what the whole children overboard business was about and the whole Peter Reith scandal.
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