President gives unwelcome massage to Chancellor of Germany - Page 8 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-21-2006, 12:30 PM   #106
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:22 PM
His intent was to go beyond "hello"?
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 12:37 PM   #107
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Bush used errant judgement on his part in this situation.
Altho innocent in his motives this was a faux pau on his part.

dbs
That sums it all up.

The sexual harrassment angle is absolutely ridiculous.
__________________

__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 12:43 PM   #108
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,684
Local Time: 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Bush used errant judgement on his part in this situation.
Altho innocent in his motives this was a faux pau on his part.

dbs
Actually Diamond, I'm suprised by your response. This shows growth.

But I will say the "innocent motive" is what I find most interesting. Because in a way I think you're right, yet this is the core of the issue.

Like many who have defended him, they found the act to be an innocent guesture. Yet obviously it was a crossing of boundaries. I honestly think Bush just doesn't know any better, but that isn't an excuse. The lack of these boundaries is sexist.

But just like any "ism" the thought or the act is "innocent" in the beholders mind.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 07-21-2006, 12:46 PM   #109
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:22 PM
I thought it you said it depends on intent.

But you are also suggesting there is a clear line, one that was crossed, and that failure to see that line (before, during or after the act?) is an example of sexism.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 12:46 PM   #110
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,684
Local Time: 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
His intent was to go beyond "hello"?
I was keeping it in context with your example of politicians touching each on the shoulders. I really don't think I have to explain myself.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 07-21-2006, 12:47 PM   #111
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

But just like any "ism" the thought or the act is "innocent" in the beholders mind.
but there should be.
she coulda handled it differently as well perhaps pulling Bush aside and addressing the situation privately.

dbs
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 12:51 PM   #112
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,684
Local Time: 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I thought it you said it depends on intent.

But you are also suggesting there is a clear line, one that was crossed, and that failure to see that line (before, during or after the act?) is an example of sexism.
Yes, but as "innocent" as the intent is, it's still wrong. Does a racist neccesarily know using a slur is wrong?

It doesn't clear them of any wrong doing, but it's something that needs to be unlearned.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 07-21-2006, 12:52 PM   #113
Refugee
 
Westport's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,151
Local Time: 07:22 PM
We're all making grand judgements from these still photos??


1. The only person that would know whether or not it was inappropriate is Merkel. We have no idea whether Merkel wanted it or not. We don't know what her reaction was. Judging from still photos is absolute nonsense. If she came out and said something to you as a friend or in public we could judge this. Do we know what they're relationship is? Do you know whether she hugs him all the time? Maybe she is very demonstrative and this one time she's returning some affection to her. We don't know. Maybe she called him over for a massage. Maybe not.

2. The photo where she raises her arms could be saying, "Hey massage my arms." She might be stretching. We were not there. We don't know. The way the photos are placed it would LEAD you to think that she reacted a certain way. We really don't know.

3. Once again, these are still photos. We don't know what order they were taken in. This is could very easily be selective editing and manipulated to look worse than it was. I worked in the communications and media business for a decade. This is very easy to do. Maybe there was a photo afterwards where she punched him. Or maybe there was a photo or a moment before or afterwards where she came up to him and gave him a hug. For all we know they're lovers. Most likely not but once again, we don't know.

4. We weren't there. We are in no position to make judgements on what really went on by looking at selected photos. If this had been a fight on the street and the photographer had shot the just the REACTION to someone gettng punched in the stomach and it was a bunch of photos of a guy beating the crap out of someone else....we wouldn't be getting the story of what happened. We don't know the before or afterwards.

5. We might have a better idea if it were videotape but it's not.
__________________
Westport is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 12:54 PM   #114
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,684
Local Time: 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


but there should be.
But there should be what?

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

she coulda handled it differently as well perhaps pulling Bush aside and addressing the situation privately.

Hell no. Who knows how long he would have stayed there if she didn't react...
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 07-21-2006, 12:55 PM   #115
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 08:22 PM
Old 07-21-2006, 12:56 PM   #116
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Westport
We're all making grand judgements from these still photos??


1. The only person that would know whether or not it was inappropriate is Merkel. We have no idea whether Merkel wanted it or not. We don't know what her reaction was. Judging from still photos is absolute nonsense. If she came out and said something to you as a friend or in public we could judge this. Do we know what they're relationship is? Do you know whether she hugs him all the time? Maybe she is very demonstrative and this one time she's returning some affection to her. We don't know. Maybe she called him over for a massage. Maybe not.

2. The photo where she raises her arms could be saying, "Hey massage my arms." She might be stretching. We were not there. We don't know. The way the photos are placed it would LEAD you to think that she reacted a certain way. We really don't know.

3. Once again, these are still photos. We don't know what order they were taken in. This is could very easily be selective editing and manipulated to look worse than it was. I worked in the communications and media business for a decade. This is very easy to do. Maybe there was a photo afterwards where she punched him. Or maybe there was a photo or a moment before or afterwards where she came up to him and gave him a hug. For all we know they're lovers. Most likely not but once again, we don't know.

4. We weren't there. We are in no position to make judgements on what really went on by looking at selected photos. If this had been a fight on the street and the photographer had shot the just the REACTION to someone gettng punched in the stomach and it was a bunch of photos of a guy beating the crap out of someone else....we wouldn't be getting the story of what happened. We don't know the before or afterwards.

5. We might have a better idea if it were videotape but it's not.
Exactly. Like a songs says, "Though cameras never lie, the edits often do".
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 12:57 PM   #117
Refugee
 
Westport's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,151
Local Time: 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

But there should be what?



Hell no. Who knows how long he would have stayed there if she didn't react...



How do you know what her reaction was?
__________________
Westport is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 12:58 PM   #118
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Yes, but as "innocent" as the intent is, it's still wrong. Does a racist neccesarily know using a slur is wrong?

It doesn't clear them of any wrong doing, but it's something that needs to be unlearned.
Interesting viewpoint. A person may not know that a word is considered a slur. What makes the person a racist in your question? The fact they used the slur? Or is the person a racist already, and somehow doesn't know that a word is offensive?

I'm asking these questions because I think we need to be more careful before we start applying such labels.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 01:01 PM   #119
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,684
Local Time: 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Westport
We're all making grand judgements from these still photos??


1. The only person that would know whether or not it was inappropriate is Merkel. We have no idea whether Merkel wanted it or not. We don't know what her reaction was. Judging from still photos is absolute nonsense. If she came out and said something to you as a friend or in public we could judge this. Do we know what they're relationship is? Do you know whether she hugs him all the time? Maybe she is very demonstrative and this one time she's returning some affection to her. We don't know. Maybe she called him over for a massage. Maybe not.

2. The photo where she raises her arms could be saying, "Hey massage my arms." She might be stretching. We were not there. We don't know. The way the photos are placed it would LEAD you to think that she reacted a certain way. We really don't know.
You can't be serious.

There is video, just google it.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 07-21-2006, 01:02 PM   #120
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 08:22 PM
I posted the link!!
__________________

__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com