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Old 03-16-2005, 10:27 PM   #76
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Originally posted by Irvine511

first, it's not just Gibson as a director, but Gibson as an actor who is obsessed with pain and suffering. think of the torture scene in the first Lethal Weapon. think of "when we were soldiers." many of Gibson's characters inhabit brutal, violent worlds where violence is often a justified response to other bad things. and as a director, and especially with braveheart -- let's not forget, the final scene is of a disembowelment and beheadding -- and to another level with "the passion," Gibson is about violence and suffering and appears highly intereted in these subjects.
See, I suspected that was part of the argument and while in one sense it's accurate, I also see it as a bit of a strawman. How many actors have played violent and sadistic roles? Clint Eastwood, Harrison Ford, Brad Pitt, Kevin Spacey, Viggo Mortensen, Michael Madsen. Only Eastwood has gone out to make a violent film or two.

Lethal Weapon was, if I remember right, Gibson's first big American movie. He was basically a nobody. I can't see him selecting a script on basis of what role would give him ample torture oppertunity. He's also done an equal amount of fluff--"What Women Want," "Forever Young" "Maverick."

I certainly don't know Gibson and he could be a total psycho, but I think it's a stretch to stereotype anyone's mental state on such evidence, because there's alot of actors and directors we could do it with. He certainly has had alot of addiction problems, which seems to imply the need for some kind of anger release, but again, I don't want to conjecture. I wouldn't want anyone making assumptions about my mental health. (And I am crazy. )
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Old 03-16-2005, 11:48 PM   #77
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That I will agree with. It's ridiculous to label other films as "unsuitable" and then rush out and embrace something just as violent.
Don't you think there's a difference in context, though? I think a lot of people object to what they perceive is senseless violence in films -- slasher films, horror films, etc. Films that get off on violence for its own sake -- which seems to be where Tarantino is at.

But "The Passion"'s point seems to be that there is some violence that, when taken in context, has a higher purpose. There are those who might argue that the film is a love story -- we only are willing to suffer for those we truly love.
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Old 03-16-2005, 11:54 PM   #78
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Originally posted by Irvine511

first, it's not just Gibson as a director, but Gibson as an actor who is obsessed with pain and suffering. ... Gibson is about violence and suffering and appears highly intereted in these subjects.
But to a certain extent, isn't this true of any one who deems themself an artist? "Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief/All kill their inspiration and sing about their grief..."

A wise woman once told me it's not age that makes one wise, but suffering.
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Old 03-17-2005, 06:16 AM   #79
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Lethal Weapon was, if I remember right, Gibson's first big American movie. He was basically a nobody.
Uh, the Mad Max trilogy?
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Old 03-17-2005, 06:20 AM   #80
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Originally posted by nathan1977


Don't you think there's a difference in context, though? I think a lot of people object to what they perceive is senseless violence in films -- slasher films, horror films, etc. Films that get off on violence for its own sake -- which seems to be where Tarantino is at.

But "The Passion"'s point seems to be that there is some violence that, when taken in context, has a higher purpose. There are those who might argue that the film is a love story -- we only are willing to suffer for those we truly love.
I think this is BS. I think a lot of this film did seem to get off on the violence. And like I said before if it had more of a plot I may be inclined to agree with you. Or even if the violence was historically acurate.
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Old 03-17-2005, 06:23 AM   #81
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But to a certain extent, isn't this true of any one who deems themself an artist? "Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief/All kill their inspiration and sing about their grief..."

A wise woman once told me it's not age that makes one wise, but suffering.
One can suffer without violence. I think this is exactly where Gibson failed. I would have much rather seen a movie that tried to dive more into the psycological and spiritual suffering than the physical. Of course more artisitic license would have to be taken, but at least it would have made for a good film.
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Old 03-17-2005, 07:55 AM   #82
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I think this is BS. I think a lot of this film did seem to get off on the violence.
This seems to be somewhat subjective, at least from the comments on the board...

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And like I said before if it had more of a plot I may be inclined to agree with you. Or even if the violence was historically acurate.
Can you prove that it wasn't?
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Old 03-17-2005, 08:05 AM   #83
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This seems to be somewhat subjective, at least from the comments on the board...
And your comment isn't?


Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977

Can you prove that it wasn't?
There have been plenty of writings from historians and theologians that disagree with the accuracy. They've been posted in here several times.

But the point is you can't prove that it was, yet people in here are saying, oh now I know what he went through blah, blah, blah and that's simply not true. They don't KNOW. Why not focus on the things that are know and that are in the gospels?
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Old 03-17-2005, 06:46 PM   #84
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I think it's important to remember, as melon has poitned out, that the traditional Catholic "Passion play" deals exclusively with the hours leading up to the Crucifixion. As important as the entire preaching life of Christ is, most of that is not part of a Passion play, and a Passion screenplay was Gibson's intent here. It is true that we today can not know exactly what it was like, although because of the more immediate hostory of the Holocaust and World War II and the events in Somalia basing BLACK HAWK DOWN, we can have a first-hand account of those events and present a more unquestionably accurate screenplay of the events. THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST is Gibson's portrayal of the Passion play as he believes it occurred; take it for that if you choose to see it.

Another word about the protest potential that the film had which I think Macfistowannabe was mentioning, it seemed to me there was some initial concern that the film would be offensive to the Jewish community and once it came out, one of the ADL leaders, perhaps Abraham Foxman, came out and indicated that that was perhaps premature. Maybe there was some rabble rousing, maybe there was some legitimate concern, but I didn't see any anti-Semitism in the film as had been predicted. Perhaps there was some concern because of Gibson's father and Mel's reluctance to draw a line in the sand against his father, I don't know. But in the film itself I only saw the portrayal of the Jewish "crowds" as being more of an indictment of much of society in Christ's time; ideally, Mel may have hoped that society would have been more supportive of Christ, but they weren't and the authorities went forward with His crucifixion. Kind of like how the Rolling Stones song asks "Who killed the Kennedys? When after all, it was you and me."

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Old 03-17-2005, 08:38 PM   #85
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Uh, the Mad Max trilogy?
Considering his voice was dubbed in the first Mad Max, I don't think they count as big hits. The first was a cult hit, the second was more popular, by the third one he'd already done "Lethal Weapon." And it was a bomb.

Most people saw him for the first time in Lethal Weapon.
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