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Old 06-19-2005, 09:06 PM   #31
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Nobody was questioning the patriotism of those that compare US soliders to Nazi's, we were questioning their sanity.
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Old 06-19-2005, 09:07 PM   #32
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Didn't Santorum just weeks ago imply that the Democrats were equivalent to Hitler's government when they were discussing the filibuster?

There is no moral high ground here.
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Old 06-19-2005, 09:07 PM   #33
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Yes and I will continue to roll my eyes when you bring up an argument that has nothing to do with this thread, it's completely out of context, and wouldn't make sense in any context especially when it's a fucking satire.

You've just single handedly destroyed any leg that Republicans had in this thread.
I suppose you would consider it "good clean fun" if I called liberals Nazis?

I didn't think so.

And my point is indeed a valid one. I'm pointing out the hypocrisies of the Democratic party on this issue.
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Old 06-19-2005, 09:07 PM   #34
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But so is abortion. Hundreds of thousands of babies are slaughtered every year. And partial-birth abortion is the worst that abortion has to offer. It is so horrendous that even the AMA has spoken against it and said that there is never a reason for it.
I'd be curious to know the numbers.

Which is more? Partial-birth abortions performed each year versus the number of prisoner executions performed each year?

I'd say that the GOP has no right to claim being "pro-life," when it is also so vehemently pro-death penalty.

Melon
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Old 06-19-2005, 09:11 PM   #35
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Death penalty is a seperate issue from abortion, a matter of justice and punishment of an individual found guilty compared to the abortion of a foetus. I do not think that there is hypocricy for somebody to support one but not the other. You can be pro-choice but anti-death penalty as many are, or you can be opposed to both, or you can be be against abortion and support the death penalty.
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Old 06-19-2005, 09:12 PM   #36
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Originally posted by melon


I'd be curious to know the numbers.

Which is more? Partial-birth abortions performed each year versus the number of prisoner executions performed each year?

I'd say that the GOP has no right to claim being "pro-life," when it is also so vehemently pro-death penalty.

Melon
I don't know how many partial birth abortions are performed each year, but I know that abortions number in the hundreds of thousands, whcih is much more than the number of prisoners executed. I would reckon that the number of partial birth abortions exceeds it, also.

The old "can't be pro-life if you believe in the death penalty" argument doesn't hold water. Prisoners who are executed have been found guilty of a heinous crime. What exactly have fetuses been found guilty of? I can see the difference and I don't even believe in the death penalty.
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Old 06-19-2005, 09:22 PM   #37
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The old "can't be pro-life if you believe in the death penalty" argument doesn't hold water. Prisoners who are executed have been found guilty of a heinous crime. What exactly have fetuses been found guilty of? I can see the difference and I don't even believe in the death penalty.
You can't be "pro-life" and "pro-death" in the same breath, no matter how many ministers say otherwise.

To use the Taoist "yin-yang" as an example, one side is feminine (yin), while the other is masculine (yang). What pisses me off about Christianity the most is that it seems to be all "yang" and no "yin." That is, if the "yang" screams "ABORTION IS WRONG!" then we'll search for hundreds of Bible passages to support it. But when the "yin" points out the hypocrisy of being "pro-life" and "pro-death (penalty)" simultaneously, no one listens and all the Bible passages that would support that are ignored. Forget that Jesus refused to stone the adulterous woman, as prescribed by Mosaic Law. Forget that Jesus said "Turn the other cheek" and "Love one another." Oh no. Jesus must be pro-death penalty, and I'm sure He cheered on His crucifixion! I mean, talk about the paradoxes of all paradoxes:

Jesus, an innocent man, gets put to death and Christians support the death penalty.

I've really seen everything, it seems, and all I know is that no matter how hard conservative Christianity tries to claim the moral high ground, they are as bankrupt as the Pharisees and I hope that, in the end, conservative Christians share their fate with the Second Coming. It would be most fitting.

Melon
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Old 06-19-2005, 09:29 PM   #38
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melon, I want to ask you a question, and I'm being serious. I am honestly not being flippant. I want you to think about this, if you will. You speak about the words of Jesus, but do you think that by hating Conservative Christians and wishing a negative fate upon them, you are "loving one another" or "turning the cheek" any more than you claim they are? Christ didn't just leave it at "love one another", he also said "love your enemies". Are you doing that, melon?
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Old 06-19-2005, 09:32 PM   #39
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
melon, I want to ask you a question, and I'm being serious. I am honestly not being flippant. I want you to think about this, if you will. You speak about the words of Jesus, but do you think that by hating Conservative Christians and wishing a negative fate upon them, you are "loving one another" or "turning the cheek" any more than you claim they are? Christ didn't just leave it at "love one another", he also said "love your enemies". Are you doing that, melon?
I'm not the one claiming the moral high ground here. And I'm, frankly, sick and tired of getting stepped on here in the real world. Maybe God isn't dead, but morality certainly is. "Nice guys finish last." That's one thing I'd certainly agree with.

If Christians can feel free to say I'm going to hell, well, I can say that if that's the case, I'll have plenty of company with them by my side.

Morality is dead, and Christianity sold its soul for worldly power.

Melon
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Old 06-19-2005, 09:39 PM   #40
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I suppose you would consider it "good clean fun" if I called liberals Nazis?

I didn't think so.
I love how so many answer their own questions. Good clean fun? No but I would say it's a misguided attempt at satire, just how I view this website to be.

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And my point is indeed a valid one. I'm pointing out the hypocrisies of the Democratic party on this issue.
No. It's not valid at all. Just like you tell Melon that being "pro-life" and being pro death penalty isn't hypocricy. The context is completely different. And this thread isn't the place, but I'd love to discussed it later in the right thread.
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Old 06-19-2005, 09:41 PM   #41
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Morality is dead,
I'll agree with this.

Quote:
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and Christianity sold its soul for worldly power.

I wouldn't say Christianity has sold it's soul, but I'd say those that have hijacked it have.
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Old 06-19-2005, 10:11 PM   #42
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Conservative Christians

There were Right-wing Conservatives at the time of Christ.


they had all the big churches,
they had the moral majority of the day,
they claimed to be preaching the true word of god, handed down in writing from Moses and Abraham.
their perceived moral superiority allowed them to condemn sinners
they had a relationship with their government leaders that allowed them to have their religion validated as the correct one for the people


and of course
Jesus of Nazareth told them they were wrong

but they had the power
and gave him a fair trial and condemn him and executed him

they also performed no abortions
they were the conservatives.
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Old 06-19-2005, 10:17 PM   #43
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they had a relationship with their government leaders that allowed them to have their religion validated as the correct one for the people
And did they! It's believed that the Pharisees were actually a minority compared to the more militant Sadducees. But after the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, only the Pharisees were left, ultimately, after the head of the Pharisees received permission from the Romans to set up a learning center or whatnot outside of Jerusalem. All Jews left behind in Jerusalem were subsequently annihilated or sold into slavery by Rome.

The Essenes, who actually cheered the Roman destruction of the Temple from their desert lifestyle, merged with the Pharisees soon afterwards and conformed to their doctrine.

Melon
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Old 06-20-2005, 06:54 AM   #44
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Originally posted by deep

There were Right-wing Conservatives at the time of Christ.
If you're trying to make some kind of comparison between conservative Christians and the Pharisees, why yes, there are SOME conservative Christians that are Pahrisees, but there are many that are not.

Quote:
Originally posted by deep
they had all the big churches,
I don't go to a big church. In fact, most of my friends do not go to a big church.

Quote:
Originally posted by deep
they had the moral majority of the day,
You think the moral standards preached by Christinity are the majority of the day? That's funny! Look around you. As melon said, morality is dead.

Quote:
Originally posted by deep
they claimed to be preaching the true word of god, handed down in writing from Moses and Abraham.
We preach what is in the Bible. We believe that the Bible is the Word of God. Why would we put our faith in it if we didn't believe it is the Word of God?

Quote:
Originally posted by deep
their perceived moral superiority allowed them to condemn sinners
Most conservative Christians do not consider themselves any better than an unsaved person, because once we were unsaved also, and it is only by grace, not by our own works, that we are saved. Most of us do not "condemn sinners". Most of us are not afraid to say that sin is sin,. but that's biblical, and is hardly "condemning the sinner".

Quote:
Originally posted by deep

they also performed no abortions
Thank God, this is one area in which the comparison works. Of course, abortion wasn't the wipespread problem back then as it is today.
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Old 06-20-2005, 07:03 AM   #45
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Morality is not dead. The world was more violent in previous eras, e.g, the middle ages. We are better off than our ancestors, all things considered.
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