Operation Yellow Elephant

[A_Wanderer]

Nobody was questioning the patriotism of those that compare US soliders to Nazi's, we were questioning their sanity.

 

[anitram]

Didn't Santorum just weeks ago imply that the Democrats were equivalent to Hitler's government when they were discussing the filibuster?

There is no moral high ground here.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Yes and I will continue to roll my eyes when you bring up an argument that has nothing to do with this thread, it's completely out of context, and wouldn't make sense in any context especially when it's a fucking satire.

You've just single handedly destroyed any leg that Republicans had in this thread.

I suppose you would consider it "good clean fun" if I called liberals Nazis?

I didn't think so.

And my point is indeed a valid one. I'm pointing out the hypocrisies of the Democratic party on this issue.

 

[melon]

But so is abortion. Hundreds of thousands of babies are slaughtered every year. And partial-birth abortion is the worst that abortion has to offer. It is so horrendous that even the AMA has spoken against it and said that there is never a reason for it.

I'd be curious to know the numbers.

Which is more? Partial-birth abortions performed each year versus the number of prisoner executions performed each year?

I'd say that the GOP has no right to claim being "pro-life," when it is also so vehemently pro-death penalty.

Melon

 

[A_Wanderer]

Death penalty is a seperate issue from abortion, a matter of justice and punishment of an individual found guilty compared to the abortion of a foetus. I do not think that there is hypocricy for somebody to support one but not the other. You can be pro-choice but anti-death penalty as many are, or you can be opposed to both, or you can be be against abortion and support the death penalty.

 

[80sU2isBest]

I'd be curious to know the numbers.

Which is more? Partial-birth abortions performed each year versus the number of prisoner executions performed each year?

I'd say that the GOP has no right to claim being "pro-life," when it is also so vehemently pro-death penalty.

Melon

I don't know how many partial birth abortions are performed each year, but I know that abortions number in the hundreds of thousands, whcih is much more than the number of prisoners executed. I would reckon that the number of partial birth abortions exceeds it, also.

The old "can't be pro-life if you believe in the death penalty" argument doesn't hold water. Prisoners who are executed have been found guilty of a heinous crime. What exactly have fetuses been found guilty of? I can see the difference and I don't even believe in the death penalty.

 

[melon]

The old "can't be pro-life if you believe in the death penalty" argument doesn't hold water. Prisoners who are executed have been found guilty of a heinous crime. What exactly have fetuses been found guilty of? I can see the difference and I don't even believe in the death penalty.

You can't be "pro-life" and "pro-death" in the same breath, no matter how many ministers say otherwise.

To use the Taoist "yin-yang" as an example, one side is feminine (yin), while the other is masculine (yang). What pisses me off about Christianity the most is that it seems to be all "yang" and no "yin." That is, if the "yang" screams "ABORTION IS WRONG!" then we'll search for hundreds of Bible passages to support it. But when the "yin" points out the hypocrisy of being "pro-life" and "pro-death (penalty)" simultaneously, no one listens and all the Bible passages that would support that are ignored. Forget that Jesus refused to stone the adulterous woman, as prescribed by Mosaic Law. Forget that Jesus said "Turn the other cheek" and "Love one another." Oh no. Jesus must be pro-death penalty, and I'm sure He cheered on His crucifixion! I mean, talk about the paradoxes of all paradoxes:

Jesus, an innocent man, gets put to death and Christians support the death penalty.

I've really seen everything, it seems, and all I know is that no matter how hard conservative Christianity tries to claim the moral high ground, they are as bankrupt as the Pharisees and I hope that, in the end, conservative Christians share their fate with the Second Coming. It would be most fitting.

Melon

 

[80sU2isBest]

melon, I want to ask you a question, and I'm being serious. I am honestly not being flippant. I want you to think about this, if you will. You speak about the words of Jesus, but do you think that by hating Conservative Christians and wishing a negative fate upon them, you are "loving one another" or "turning the cheek" any more than you claim they are? Christ didn't just leave it at "love one another", he also said "love your enemies". Are you doing that, melon?

 

[melon]

melon, I want to ask you a question, and I'm being serious. I am honestly not being flippant. I want you to think about this, if you will. You speak about the words of Jesus, but do you think that by hating Conservative Christians and wishing a negative fate upon them, you are "loving one another" or "turning the cheek" any more than you claim they are? Christ didn't just leave it at "love one another", he also said "love your enemies". Are you doing that, melon?

I'm not the one claiming the moral high ground here. And I'm, frankly, sick and tired of getting stepped on here in the real world. Maybe God isn't dead, but morality certainly is. "Nice guys finish last." That's one thing I'd certainly agree with.

If Christians can feel free to say I'm going to hell, well, I can say that if that's the case, I'll have plenty of company with them by my side.

Morality is dead, and Christianity sold its soul for worldly power.

Melon

 

[BVS]

I suppose you would consider it "good clean fun" if I called liberals Nazis?

I didn't think so.

I love how so many answer their own questions. Good clean fun? No but I would say it's a misguided attempt at satire, just how I view this website to be.

And my point is indeed a valid one. I'm pointing out the hypocrisies of the Democratic party on this issue.

No. It's not valid at all. Just like you tell Melon that being "pro-life" and being pro death penalty isn't hypocricy. The context is completely different. And this thread isn't the place, but I'd love to discussed it later in the right thread.

 

[BVS]

Morality is dead,

I'll agree with this.

and Christianity sold its soul for worldly power.

I wouldn't say Christianity has sold it's soul, but I'd say those that have hijacked it have.

 

[deep]

Conservative Christians

There were Right-wing Conservatives at the time of Christ.


they had all the big churches,
they had the moral majority of the day,
they claimed to be preaching the true word of god, handed down in writing from Moses and Abraham.
their perceived moral superiority allowed them to condemn sinners
they had a relationship with their government leaders that allowed them to have their religion validated as the correct one for the people


and of course
Jesus of Nazareth told them they were wrong

but they had the power
and gave him a fair trial and condemn him and executed him

they also performed no abortions
they were the conservatives.

 

[melon]

they had a relationship with their government leaders that allowed them to have their religion validated as the correct one for the people

And did they! It's believed that the Pharisees were actually a minority compared to the more militant Sadducees. But after the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, only the Pharisees were left, ultimately, after the head of the Pharisees received permission from the Romans to set up a learning center or whatnot outside of Jerusalem. All Jews left behind in Jerusalem were subsequently annihilated or sold into slavery by Rome.

The Essenes, who actually cheered the Roman destruction of the Temple from their desert lifestyle, merged with the Pharisees soon afterwards and conformed to their doctrine.

Melon

 

[80sU2isBest]

There were Right-wing Conservatives at the time of Christ.

If you're trying to make some kind of comparison between conservative Christians and the Pharisees, why yes, there are SOME conservative Christians that are Pahrisees, but there are many that are not.

they had all the big churches,

I don't go to a big church. In fact, most of my friends do not go to a big church.

they had the moral majority of the day,

You think the moral standards preached by Christinity are the majority of the day? That's funny! Look around you. As melon said, morality is dead.

they claimed to be preaching the true word of god, handed down in writing from Moses and Abraham.

We preach what is in the Bible. We believe that the Bible is the Word of God. Why would we put our faith in it if we didn't believe it is the Word of God?

their perceived moral superiority allowed them to condemn sinners

Most conservative Christians do not consider themselves any better than an unsaved person, because once we were unsaved also, and it is only by grace, not by our own works, that we are saved. Most of us do not "condemn sinners". Most of us are not afraid to say that sin is sin,. but that's biblical, and is hardly "condemning the sinner".

they also performed no abortions

Thank God, this is one area in which the comparison works. Of course, abortion wasn't the wipespread problem back then as it is today.

 

[financeguy]

Morality is not dead. The world was more violent in previous eras, e.g, the middle ages. We are better off than our ancestors, all things considered.

 

[martha]

We need new arguments in here.


Or at least sticking to the original topic.


Which was chicken-shit Republican youth.

 

[Irvine511]

Draft Jenna and Barbara!

(it's not like they're employed or anything ... they're just drinking up a storm at the Blue Gin or Smith's Point in Georgetown)

 

[pax]

We need new arguments in here.


Or at least sticking to the original topic.


Which was chicken-shit Republican youth.

Funny, isn't it, how the wealthy Republican youth stand up for this war, while the segments of the military most responsible for fighting this war are largely composed of poor and working-class young recruits.

Funny how these American Republicans insisted so hard-core that we have this war, so to speak, and meanwhile high schoolers are being recruited out of the Highlands of Scotland (unemployment, remote geography...sound familiar?) to go fight the war that rich, politically connected Americans wanted so badly.

Funny how, out of a legislative body of over 500 of the country's "best and brightest," only one (to my knowledge) has a child fighting the so-called "War on Terror"--less than one-fifth of one percent.

Funny how, in the midst of this "War on Terror" wherein humanpower (I say this because women are at the front lines of this war like never before) is at such a premium, those same bastards are responsible for the discharge of highly skilled soldiers and linguists on the basis of sexuality--a sexuality that involved consenting adults engaged in private, legal activities.

And funnier still, indeed, that in the midst of this humanpower crisis, the people who wanted this war so fucking badly won't pony up their children, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, friends...or selves.

Funny, isn't it?

 

[martha]

Pax, you've made many good points.


Let's talk about abortion instead.

 

[financeguy]

Well said, Pax.

 

[Dreadsox]

Funny, isn't it, how the wealthy Republican youth stand up for this war, while the segments of the military most responsible for fighting this war are largely composed of poor and working-class young recruits.

Funny how these American Republicans insisted so hard-core that we have this war, so to speak, and meanwhile high schoolers are being recruited out of the Highlands of Scotland (unemployment, remote geography...sound familiar?) to go fight the war that rich, politically connected Americans wanted so badly.

Funny how, out of a legislative body of over 500 of the country's "best and brightest," only one (to my knowledge) has a child fighting the so-called "War on Terror"--less than one-fifth of one percent.

Funny how, in the midst of this "War on Terror" wherein humanpower (I say this because women are at the front lines of this war like never before) is at such a premium, those same bastards are responsible for the discharge of highly skilled soldiers and linguists on the basis of sexuality--a sexuality that involved consenting adults engaged in private, legal activities.

And funnier still, indeed, that in the midst of this humanpower crisis, the people who wanted this war so fucking badly won't pony up their children, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, friends...or selves.

Funny, isn't it?

Funny....how the military voted for Bush. These poor working class people voted Republican. They must not know what is good for them.

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Funnier still is it is a volunteer organization. Nobody can take thier child and grandchild and "pony them up".

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About the only point I agree with is the Gay soldiers. They should be allowed to serve openly.

 

[Irvine511]

Funny....how the military voted for Bush. These poor working class people voted Republican. They must not know what is good for them.

a spoonful of patriotism makes it easier for the working classes to die for the business interests of the elite.

driving through northwestern massachusettes, i am always taken by just how many Army/Navy recruitment billboards i see in economically downtrodded (to put it nicely) North Adams, and yet the signs all but stop when one arrives in Williamstown.

same with the Native American reservations i drove through in New Mexico.

could it be that the maintenance of an elite class of people is predicated upon the maintenance of a permanent underclass? could it be that our near-jingoistic patriotism (at times) and the pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps mantra is little more than a tool to keep taxes low, the military full, and the class system increasingly ossified?

 

[Dreadsox]

So let me get this straight...

you did not look me up while in MA?

 

[Irvine511]

So let me get this straight...

you did not look me up while in MA?

i thought you were out on the Cape?

sorry, had my grandmother to visit outside boston and a college reunion to attend.

i miss new england.

 

[Dreadsox]

I was in Boston Friday and Sat.

I am near the cape....south shore....I can be in Boston in less than an hour.

Shite...I drove well over an hour to meet Diamond.

 

[Rono]

Do you folks believe in the war on crime? Do you think that criminals like murderers and rapists ought to be hunted down and jailed? If so, why don't you do what I did for seven years - work for the police department? Come on, you say you believe in justice - prove it!

Now you are mention it,...that war is not very succesfull either.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Now you are mention it,...that war is not very succesfull either.

Where would you be without cops, Rono?

 

[Rono]

Funny....how the military voted for Bush. These poor working class people voted Republican. They must not know what is good for them.

Never bite the hand that feeds you ?

 

[Rono]

Where would you be without cops, Rono?

It is not the cops, but it is the way you fight. When i did visit dallas i traveled to a friend of ABEL and i did see a police staiton. Her friend told me, we have a little police station here and i went There where more police cars there then on my province here. I did some research about crime figures and let me tell you,...you can keep your law system and cops.

 

[80sU2isBest]

It is not the cops, but it is the way you fight. When i did visit dallas i traveled to a friend of ABEL and i did see a police staiton. Her friend told me, we have a little police station here and i went There where more police cars there then on my province here. I did some research about crime figures and let me tell you,...you can keep your law system and cops.

oh so you looked at some figures and have now decided that the police aren't doing their jobs well.

Must be great to obtain so much knowledge so easily.