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Old 09-16-2004, 11:04 AM   #46
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By the way I'm 17 and understand that there are gray areas in life. I also know that I don't know everything, and neither do adults. If adults knew everything, this world would be alot better off.
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Old 09-16-2004, 03:38 PM   #47
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I am an Athiest, and I dont want to be in this thread.

Thank you.
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Old 09-16-2004, 05:03 PM   #48
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nevermind
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Old 09-16-2004, 06:00 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kieran McConville
Well I didn't read past your first sentence. I'm no zealot by any means but you cannot tell me there was no Jesus (or God), as an assertion out of thin air, and expect me to take you seriously.


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Old 09-16-2004, 06:25 PM   #50
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I agree with you Aussie. I personally dont believe in any religion, although I do believe that Jesus Christ did exist, however I believe that he was a prophet to some degree and his teachings like you said have been delivered over the years and made into scriptures etc. However with this sad I respect other peoples opinions, even though I do find it hard to believe in religion....but good on you for having the balls to do exactly what this forum is supposed to be about- Free your mind


and by the way, I am 27 and felt this way about reigion since the age of 14- must of been all those years at Catholic schools that turned me off
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Old 09-16-2004, 07:50 PM   #51
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Okay this is what I have to say to all you Christians

Quote:
Originally posted by AussieU2fanman


Well was I wrong to assume that Christians would follow the ten commandments\certain fundamental parts of the Bible? That's what I meant by 'you people,' ie. Practicing Christians that belive in 10 commandments etc. If you are not one of these people, I wasn't referring to you.
Hey you person, I respect our differences so let me help you out and explain some things. First of all, since you are not a Christian and judging by your posts, I can tell you have a very limited understanding of Christianity and Jesus. Jesus was not a prophet, he fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament prophets. Secondly, the Ten Commandments have very little relavence to Christianity anymore. They were part of those Old Testament traditions and prophecies that Jesus' life and death fulfilled.

If you're not interested in Christianity, you should at least know that the foundations of Christian faith and Christian living are based on the life and faith of Jesus Christ. People often get into nit-picky fights about the most rediculous subjects (like today in class, somewhere in the Bible it says women must have their hair long, men should wear hats, etc). As a general rule I always say, if Jesus didn't adress the issue, it's not important. Therefore, who gives a fuck if I have short hair and don't wrap my head in a scarf or whatever? These things can be fun and interesting to debate about, but as far as evalutating people's beliefs and religion, they're worthless. You need to forget about the Ten Commandments. You're basing your evalutation of Christianity on something that doesn't really matter any more. I respect everyone's opinion, but I think you need to do a bit more research before you start judging and entire religion based on things that make a lot of us go Your arguements thus far are so broad and uninformed that I could offer more sound proof that God DOES exist. If you have a more specific, more informed question/issue to present I'd be more than happy to help. Until then, I'm having a hard time finding anything in your posts worth discussing.
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Old 09-16-2004, 08:13 PM   #52
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Re: Okay this is what I have to say to all you Christians

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Originally posted by AussieU2fanman
Okay, this relates to all religions, but more specifically Christianity. You guys are gonna be pissed at me and several of you 'realists' may agree with me.

God doesn't exist. Jesus was either just a good man who :
never claimed to be God, claimed to be god or simply never existed. This man was perfect to become the figurehead of a new Jewish Sect. This religion was desperately needed as a relief from Paganism (which taught that God hated humans) and the Jewish law that was very burdonsome (circumcision). Years and years later of ORAL history (we all know how reliable that is!) the Gospels were written, where Jesus was made into this God-like creature that could heal people, and resurrect from the dead! From then on, bullshit after bullshit was layed upon these doctrines and the Bible and WHAZOO, we have Christianity.
The gospels were written by groups of people (eg John). These people were relying on history that came down after generations via word of mouth. The Gospels are either purely ficticious (to create Jesus into this almighty figure) or they were gathered from information from word of mouth. Now come on people, how could any of you believe a WORD the Bible says! It baffles me! People that live their lives by the Bible are, in my opinion, quit ignorant. I can't put it any other way. And by the way, if God supposedly gave us reason, why must we abide by his rules and not use our own judgement (I admire the ethics of Humanism!).

FACT - Did you guys know that Original Sin was purely made up to get members into the Church? All people are born with sin until they are BAPTIZTED where they are cleansed (bullshit). It must be done at birth to secure members into the Church, like a marketing tool. Very dishonest and sneaky, would Jesus make up a lie like that!?

FACT - Christianity started as blackmail. If you give 100 bits of gold to the Church, your time in purgatory will be reduced to 500 years, if you don't, you will have to wait for 5000 years!

I could go on and on, but I won't. People that believe in any religion fascinate me. Did they really make an independent leap of faith or are they merely holding on in order for salvation (You wouldn't want to burn in hell with all the fire and sharp things! BTW this scare tactic which the Church implemented is downright mean to those gullible\slow people).

Look there are so many things I hate about religion, especially Christianity, but I won't go on. But I am deeply interested religion, how it acts as a tool to control people by those few in power. (Christian doctrine could only be changed by the rich and powerful). As you guys could guess, I am an athiest, been all my life. I couldn't give myself ONE REASON to believe anything that was told to me about Christianity. I searched, I failed. I was a forced Catholic that went to Church every week (and still does, my parents force me to!!), that woke up and realized that, religion is an invention by humans for humans for regulating the lower classes (in the old days), as a revenue generator. However, you people all need religion, not me, you guys. Without it, there will be chaos obviously.

I'll end with a quote from U2's Last Night on Earth : "THE MORE YOU KNOW, THE LESS YOU BELIEVE" (Think about it)

You guys all hate me now, please reply angriliy or reply with other reasons why Christianity should be condemned!
everybody is born with original sin, or just sin in general, because we are not God and therefore are imperfect. but yes, anything you dont believe in is bullshit apparently.

i guess i also must be pretty slow since i believe in a heaven and a hell.

there are records of a jesus of nazareth existing, so, apparently, he did exist, unlike as specified in your first sentence.

ever hear the story of our lady of guadalupe? or the shroud of turin? proof enough (didnt need the proof anyway, i'd believe without) for me.

if there is no God, how are you here? how did we all come to exist? we just were? earth was just here? we happened to evolve? right.

it must be a pretty depressing way to live life believing that there is no god and nothing after you die. i know i'd sure hate to believe that.

ps yes i realize this post is all over the map, but so was the original one.
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Old 09-16-2004, 08:20 PM   #53
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Re: Re: Okay this is what I have to say to all you Christians

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Originally posted by StlElevation
or the shroud of turin? proof enough (didnt need the proof anyway, i'd believe without) for me.

it must be a pretty depressing way to live life believing that there is no god and nothing after you die. i know i'd sure hate to believe that.
The shroud of turin was proven to be fake, an old fake, but a fake netherless. Apart from the image being of a Teutonic man, and Jesus being Jewish, the shroud was dated to the Renaissance.

Please dont slander Athiests. You can disagree with posters in this thread but please dont slander an entire group of people. ie you are doing exactly what offends you.

peace
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Old 09-16-2004, 10:58 PM   #54
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Re: Re: Re: Okay this is what I have to say to all you Christians

Quote:
Originally posted by beli


The shroud of turin was proven to be fake, an old fake, but a fake netherless. Apart from the image being of a Teutonic man, and Jesus being Jewish, the shroud was dated to the Renaissance.

Please dont slander Athiests. You can disagree with posters in this thread but please dont slander an entire group of people. ie you are doing exactly what offends you.

peace
I love this thread! It did start out a bit harshly, but A Wanderer posted some very good replies and certainly moved the thread into a real discussion instead of merely a my belief is better than yours thing, or even a discussion of the details of one denomination opposed to another. I find this type of discussion refreshing and stimulating, as it is more about the beginnings of religion (specifically Christianity) and it's role in society than most of the religion threads here.

I consider myself agnostic more than atheistic because I don't really know if there is indeed a god or not, and I find I don't really care. I don't think religions themselves are bad, but some of the followers (of all religions) sure are jerks! Of course, some people who are followers of no religion are jerks too!

I know this is rather simplistic, but I'm of the whatever floats your boat and doesn't hurt anyone else (and that is not just in your estimation, but their's also), school of thought. Some of the finest people I know are very religious. And some of the finest people I know aren't religious at all. Although I think many of the particulars that many Christians (esp. fundamentalists) believe are malarkey, if they find peace in that, and don't force it onto me or anyone else...well, it's all good. I certainly hope the same consideration is given to me.

And you know, I had more to say on this, but now I'm drawing a blank.... So, maybe later!
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Old 09-16-2004, 11:02 PM   #55
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I think the Sermon on the Mount is the finest, most radical thing that Christianity has to offer the world. I realise there is a lot more in the Bible than just that, but really it's awfully close to the kernel of it for me.

Shrouds don't interest me, trying to justify religious belief with archaeological junk is a fool's game. It appears that Jesus was indeed a historical figure, but really, even if he wasn't, someone obviously had to make him up.
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Old 09-16-2004, 11:07 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kieran McConville

Shrouds don't interest me, trying to justify religious belief with archaeological junk is a fool's game.
As mentioned Im not a Christian, what I wanted to say in my last post was - I thought many Christians wouldnt give a flying toss whether the Shroud of Turin was real or not as it doesnt have a bearing on the bible etc.

But I edited my own post as I thought it may have sounded offensive.
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Old 09-16-2004, 11:11 PM   #57
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What do people think about the Greco-Buddhist philosophies being the melting pot from which Christianity derived some of its concepts, as I said religion is mostly knowledge, the moral guidance and principles are simmilar.
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Old 09-16-2004, 11:22 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by AussieU2fanman
I'm trying to understand what 'Christians' and 'Non-Christians' think.

Apart from the whole "Religous People" and "Non Religous People" argument . There is another group. Ex Religous People.

I was born and raised an Irreligious Athiest, for want of a term.

But there are many Athiest/Agnostics who, start out life as Christians etc. Some of these Christians, especially Catholics, can turn into the most rabid hateful Athiests. and give "us" all a bad name. Ex Catholics can be every bit as annoying as exsmokers or reformed drinkers. Not all Ex Religious people, just some.

Also, "Non Religious People" do not share a common moral, ethical nor belief system. Theyre not actually a group of people but rather peoples with an absence of allegiance to a belief/moral/ethical system, (and also the spiritual people who are not religious would also fall into this "group" )
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Old 09-16-2004, 11:44 PM   #59
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if I have to have proof God exist's.. to believe in him then to me thats no faith at all.. I've never doubted there is a God .. we have a very nice relationhip.. although he gets me better then I understand him.... everything else is a big piece to the puzzle I'm just trying to figure out. .. One thing I know for sure not one person believe's in God the same way I do .. so I try not to push my ideas to much it's not fair .. I think once you start trying to explain it what your faith is ..it gets lost in translation
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Old 09-16-2004, 11:49 PM   #60
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I dont like this thread

The presentation is very poor to the point of being offensive... sorry aussieU2fan

But i understand the point you are trying to make but I disagree..
its difficult to find a Christian fanatic.. Having lived in UK and Italy for more than 1.5 years , I couldnt find any

Christians in general are very liberal, open minded & rational.

I am using the word "in general"..
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