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Old 07-01-2005, 12:51 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by redkat


Did you mean genders?

i was referring to this



Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


wonder today about the racists of the south.
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Old 07-01-2005, 01:20 PM   #32
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I was telling my husband about this today and he thinks it's just a ploy to increase tourism to Spain.
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Old 07-02-2005, 11:46 AM   #33
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Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel


And yet those groups have yet to show exactly how that'd be true...as always.



Angela
Yep...because there is no truth to in in the first place,just people's fears.
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Old 07-02-2005, 12:08 PM   #34
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Is not it obvious,

Fundamentalist married men have every reason to feel threatened.
They fear that there is an alternative for their subservient domineered wives to consider,
an empathetic, compassionate, non-chauvinistic life partner.
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Old 07-02-2005, 04:34 PM   #35
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Originally posted by deep
Is not it obvious,

Fundamentalist married men have every reason to feel threatened.
They fear that there is an alternative for their subservient domineered wives to consider,
an empathetic, compassionate, non-chauvinistic life partner.
You mean homosexuality is a choice ?

;-)
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Old 07-02-2005, 04:35 PM   #36
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Originally posted by Irvine511

now, what if Einstein were gay?
We'd have better footwear ?
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Old 07-03-2005, 10:56 PM   #37
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Homosexual Marriage is a display of the decadant values of the west, it runs contrary to strongly held religious beliefs and justifies violence agains the west for immorality.

Gay marriage demonstrates the inherently immoral and anti-Islamic principles of the western world, it is something that Islamists see as the weakness of the west and it is mentioned as justification for terror and opposition to democracy. For these reasons and many more I think that every person who values individual freedom and liberty must support the rights of free men and women to live their lives in a manner that does not harm anybody else.
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Old 07-04-2005, 11:00 AM   #38
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So you support gay marriage because it pisses off Muslims?

Please tell me I'm misunderstanding you. Please.
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Old 07-04-2005, 01:19 PM   #39
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I agree, I wouldn't want anyone to support gay marriage just because it pisses off Muslims. It should be for a positive reason, not a negative reason.
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Old 07-04-2005, 06:40 PM   #40
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Originally posted by martha
So you support gay marriage because it pisses off Muslims?

Please tell me I'm misunderstanding you. Please.
No I support gay marriage because frankly it is a choice of individuals and it provides a legal framework and supports for long term relationships. There is no power on this earth be it government or religious establishment that should prevent two individuals of legal age and of sound mind from having legitimacy and protections for their union.

I am also saying that gay marriage displays the openess, tollerance and diversity of a society that is totally contrary to religious fundamentalists worldview ~ if the Taliban collapses walls on top of gays and Hamas executes men for "crimes against nature" then legitimizing and protecting gay rights is giving the proverbial fuck you to the terrorists and sending an important message to the rest of humanity, something that I think should be said. What is seen as weakness is what makes free societies stronger ~ taking a stand for these things is a most noble form of resistance to terror.

I was not declaring support on the basis that it pisses off all muslims any more than I was saying that it should be supported because it pisses off all christians. I suppose that the nuance of islamist is consistantly lost on people - the term is not loaded and is in wide circulation, the entire point of it is too highlight the distinction between the hardcore bastards like the Taliban, Al Qaeda, Wahabi Extremists, Muslim Brotherhood etc. who would establish their own theocracy around the world through violent means and the vast ammount of regular people and religious leaders who just want to live a good life and worship God in a peaceful manner. Perhaps making distinctions between an ideological political movement and a religion is too confusing: lets just settle on the dichotomy of 'evil terrorists' and 'good USA'. If the 'good USA' legitimises gay marriage then it is resisting the 'evil terrorists' ~ resisting the 'evil terrorists' is a good thing to do because they are 'evil terrorists'.
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Old 07-04-2005, 07:41 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Homosexual Marriage is a display of the decadant values of the west, it runs contrary to strongly held religious beliefs and justifies violence agains the west for immorality.




Jerry Falwell or Osama Bin Laden?

when you look at the basic blueprints of their ideologies, they sound so similar.

and this is why many of us fear the US slowly evolving (or devolving) into a Christian Iran.

with nukes. lots of 'em.

could it happen? probably not, but damned if i'm not going to throw a fit every time i see fundamentalist values -- be they muslim or christian.
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Old 07-04-2005, 07:42 PM   #42
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Look at it from the position of opposition: what motivates opposition to gay marriage: usually it is religious conviction but not always: if it is religious conviction then what role should belief of a particular group in society be exerted over the rest: we could take it back to rights and the importance of equality: marriage as a union being recognised certainly adds an element of stability to relationships and legitimizes them: adds responsibilities: it is not strictly for procreation therefore that argument can more or less be wiped from the table: modern reproductive technology could also negate that argument: the most reasonable opposition to gay marriage and adoption would be the effect on children - this is a problem but one that can be adressed as society progresses: the prejudice is removed once something becomes accepted: the only way for that to happen is full legal protections and equal rights.
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Old 07-04-2005, 07:46 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

Jerry Falwell or Osama Bin Laden?

when you look at the basic blueprints of their ideologies, they sound so similar.

and this is why many of us fear the US slowly evolving (or devolving) into a Christian Iran.

with nukes. lots of 'em.

could it happen? probably not, but damned if i'm not going to throw a fit every time i see fundamentalist values -- be they muslim or christian.
There is the important distinction that (most) Christian fundamentalists are rallying to save you from hell, (some of) the Islamic fundamentalists would be trying to send you there - quirks of history and politics. Whichever way you cut it though legitimizing gay rights notably through marriage and adoption would prevent theocracy at home and subvert it abroad (same goes for womens rights ~ when you start empowering significant sections of humanity it makes it very difficult to supress them again), and the inherent reactionary nature of the fundamentalists would ensure that such a change would ilicit a response and the free speech that you enjoy would guarantee that once those rights are fully established the fundamentalists real bigotry would be even more visible, most people are not died in the wool bigots, many minds could be changed.
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Old 07-05-2005, 10:41 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer

I was not declaring support on the basis that it pisses off all muslims any more than I was saying that it should be supported because it pisses off all christians. I suppose that the nuance of islamist is consistantly lost on people - the term is not loaded and is in wide circulation, the entire point of it is too highlight the distinction between the hardcore bastards like the Taliban, Al Qaeda, Wahabi Extremists, Muslim Brotherhood etc. who would establish their own theocracy around the world through violent means and the vast ammount of regular people and religious leaders who just want to live a good life and worship God in a peaceful manner.
Thanks. I had a hunch I was totally misinterpreting you. I was on some nasty pain pills. :ugh:
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