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Old 06-08-2010, 11:26 PM   #856
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true, 2012 is unpredictable at this time

and if they counted (or had) the primaries in Mich and Fl, it would have been Hillary,
I always believed Giuliani would fold, besides feeding off the 911 corpses, he had and was nothing.
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Old 06-10-2010, 09:21 AM   #857
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The lack of leadership is just appalling to me. After the abortion which was dubya's years in power and now this guy, I believe the American public needs to look long and hard at how and who we are putting in power. It is evident to me that Bush got in way over his head and now I believe it to be the same for Obama. Where is our next great leader coming from? I really had high hopes for Obama but once again they are dashed at his obvious ineptitude.

Just to answer comments from Irvine and Moonlit preemptively - when you're the head of a Business or a Country or even a Country Club sometimes you need to be the bad guy and hold other people or businesses accountable even if they helped you to be placed into power.

I hope this country could come back after 12 or 16 years of no leadership.
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Old 06-10-2010, 09:26 AM   #858
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Who is he not holding accountable?

I wish you had answered my questions in the Drill thread, because right now I'm having a hard time seeing if you really understand the issue.

You seem very emotional about it(which is understandable) but I'm not sure if you fully understand...
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Old 06-10-2010, 10:17 AM   #859
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Who is he not holding accountable?

I wish you had answered my questions in the Drill thread, because right now I'm having a hard time seeing if you really understand the issue.

You seem very emotional about it(which is understandable) but I'm not sure if you fully understand...

Emotional because I live on the Gulf Coast.

Now for the accountability question. For starters BP, the administration allowed BP to drive the response. They even were in agreement at how "little" was gushing out. I think more pressure needed to be put on BP right from the start.

MMS, Salazar knew this Department was filled with incompetance and chose not to deal with them once again and I'll know you'll say it's not Obama's doing but he is the chief right?

The point I'm trying to make is that in hind sight, Bush was not a very good choice for president and what I see of Obama so far I'm not impressed.

Please tell me you're happy with Feds and BP's response?
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Old 06-10-2010, 10:18 AM   #860
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I put Obama at 48-53% shot to get re-elected
Also I agree with this assesment....
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Old 06-10-2010, 10:22 AM   #861
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Right now I would say even less than that
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Old 06-10-2010, 10:36 AM   #862
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Emotional because I live on the Gulf Coast.

Now for the accountability question. For starters BP, the administration allowed BP to drive the response. They even were in agreement at how "little" was gushing out. I think more pressure needed to be put on BP right from the start.

MMS, Salazar knew this Department was filled with incompetance and chose not to deal with them once again and I'll know you'll say it's not Obama's doing but he is the chief right?

The point I'm trying to make is that in hind sight, Bush was not a very good choice for president and what I see of Obama so far I'm not impressed.
Well as a Republican or former Republican(I'm not sure) I'm suprised that you are upset that the administration allowed BP to drive the response. Shouldn't that have been the proper first response? When did the Administration agree with BP's assessment from the start? You brought that up earlier and I asked you and you didn't respond.

I understand your point about knowing there was incompetance but honestly just because Obama is the chief doesn't mean micromanaging is something he has time to do. The majority of blame lies on the preset of this explosion, the fact that measures weren't put in place to begin with is the biggest problem.

I think Obama's problem hasn't been response, but explaining to the public his response.
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Old 06-10-2010, 11:01 AM   #863
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I guess you'd call me a former Republican (Bush cured me of that). Also I'm an environmentalist which prolly flies in the face of being a Republican. As for BP being the first responders your right it was up to them but it was so obvious they were dropping the ball. NOAA confirmed with BP that just 5k-10k were coming out in first couple of days of the incident, that's what I mean by Gov't agreeing w/ BP. When scientists near and far were saying otherwise.

Also, let me apologize if I don't respond to questions about my posts most of the time, my work at times pulls me in other directions.

As I said in a former post I live just a couple of miles from what one would say might be the nicest beach in America. I think it's just a matter of time as to when we will see the tar balls end up here and seeing the appalling pix of the dead wildlife - I just can't get my head wrapped around that yet.
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Old 06-10-2010, 02:24 PM   #864
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Originally Posted by YBORCITYOBL View Post
The lack of leadership is just appalling to me. After the abortion which was dubya's years in power and now this guy, I believe the American public needs to look long and hard at how and who we are putting in power. It is evident to me that Bush got in way over his head and now I believe it to be the same for Obama. Where is our next great leader coming from? I really had high hopes for Obama but once again they are dashed at his obvious ineptitude.[/B]
Bush was inept. I don't think that word can apply to Obama. Bush never "got in way over his head", when he came into power in 2000, things were going fairly good. If he was ever "in over his head" it was because of his own stupidity. I think Obama is definitely overwhelmed, but I don't think he's not trying. I just, again, think that this whole thing was probably out of his control from the start. Congress would've never been able to pass proper regulations for the oil companies, and had a miracle occurred and any regulatory reform had been created, the oil companies likely would've tried to disregard any regulations they did get anyway. And this spill went way too quickly and way too fast for anyone to keep up and get it cleaned out sooner. Obama could've perhaps, when he got into office, said, "Okay, so long as we keep drilling, if an oil rig explodes or leaks or whatever, we need an immediate plan of action to contain and clean it right away, and this is it." But who knows.

Besides that, something else for people to consider: Obama handles crisises totally differently than most presidents do. I think we're so used to the president being right out there, right up front telling us exactly what they're going to do and all that, that the way Obama's handling this seems odd to a lot of people. He's more of a "behind the scenes" sort of guy. He doesn't want to make a big spectacle of what he's going to do to solve a problem, he's just going to quietly do it and see what happens. He has been down to the Gulf. He has been briefed on what's going on and where. He's listened to all sides in this conflict. Now he's got to go about coming up with a solution, presuming he hasn't already been doing so.

And then of course the Republicans have made things very confusing about what Obama should and shouldn't be doing. The very same people that wanted the federal government out of controlling business and controlling what happens in various states and whatnot are all now pissed off because they feel Obama's not doing more in those areas. ?????? I thought that's what you wanted, Republicans? So who knows what state vs. federal conflicts may be going on there? Lot of Republican governors battling a Democratic president, I have to imagine that's going to create some problems.

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Just to answer comments from Irvine and Moonlit preemptively - when you're the head of a Business or a Country or even a Country Club sometimes you need to be the bad guy and hold other people or businesses accountable even if they helped you to be placed into power.[/B]
I fully agree with you on this. Except that Obama doesn't have nearly the backing of the oil companies that McCain did, it wasn't exactly them who helped get him into power. He got a bit of support from them, but not much. And Obama holds BP totally accountable (the "kick some asses" line that's getting Obama some controversy). Hell, he held himself responsible. It's rare you hear a president say, "I accept responsiblity for this problem"-you sure would've never heard that out of Bush's mouth, but you have heard it out of Obama's. And I guess that's why I can't really get mad at him. I do believe he does understand the seriousness of the issue and I do believe he is trying his hardest to come up with a feasible solution to this problem. Supporting the public's demand for criminal charges against BP would be a great start. He's just not very public with how he's handling this, and I think that's the big issue for people, I really do. I don't think we're used to that from our presidents, and it's just thrown us off.

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I hope this country could come back after 12 or 16 years of no leadership.
I hope so, too, and I've not yet lost the belief that it will. I really think Obama could be elected again (after all, the country was willing to re-elect Bush in 2004, and his first term sure didn't prove him worthy of that, so if he could get by with being re-elected, Obama certainly has a chance), partially because of the way the Republican party's been acting as of late, and partially because we've still got a couple more years. Obama's still got some time to do some more elect-worthy things. In 2012 we'll have a much better idea of that possiblity. Right now, not exactly easy to predict.

Angela
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Old 06-10-2010, 02:36 PM   #865
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I guess you'd call me a former Republican (Bush cured me of that). Also I'm an environmentalist which prolly flies in the face of being a Republican. As for BP being the first responders your right it was up to them but it was so obvious they were dropping the ball. NOAA confirmed with BP that just 5k-10k were coming out in first couple of days of the incident, that's what I mean by Gov't agreeing w/ BP. When scientists near and far were saying otherwise.
Ok, but let me ask you again: what would you have liked for Obama to do? Besides not "agreeing" with BP

The problem is that there was never a plot put into place for this type of issue, how is that inept on Obama's part?

What did you want him to do that he hasn't?

I think Obama's biggest problem in this whole thing is an optics problem. It looks like he's not doing anything to those who aren't paying attention. He should have been telling the public from day one exactly what is being done or trying to be done.
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Old 06-10-2010, 04:30 PM   #866
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I really think Obama could be elected again (after all, the country was willing to re-elect Bush in 2004, and his first term sure didn't prove him worthy of that, so if he could get by with being re-elected, Obama certainly has a chance),
Angela

Remember, the majority of the country still supported the Iraq war in November 2004. The economy was doing fantastic compared to today with unemployment below 5%. Bush's approval ratings were always higher than his disaproval ratings during his first term, and usually over 50%.

Obama by contrast has already had approval ratings sometimes lower than his disapproval ratings and overall all his approval rating of late is averaging below 50%, along with nearly 10% unemployment. Still, there is a grace period for Obama out of understanding of the problems and difficulties he had to deal with from first day he entered office. But by, January of 2011, the majority of the public will be far more focused on Obama and less willing to accept excuses blaming the previous administration for problems.
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Old 06-13-2010, 10:57 PM   #867
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Our president has voted 'present ' on the oil disaster. He'll tell us Tuesday night why he sent lawyers to the Gulf before he sent engineers, scientists, and boom. Why he didn't work with Governor Jindal to contain this thing. And why he didn't speak to BP management until seven weeks in. Or maybe he'll just tell us who's ass will be kicked next

Afghanistan, the president's chosen war, is getting worse by the day. It's out of the news lately, the casualties, but it shouldn't be.

We can only hope that 'comprehensive' Wall Street reform and 'comprehensive' cap and tax energy reform sells better than 'comprehensive' health reform did. The administration has already began trotting out extra billions in supplemental payments for their new health program, which already had dubious cost estimates to start with. And we refuse to secure our southern border under current law, without, again, more 'comprehensive' reform. Anytime this administration mentions 'comprehensive reform', be wary.

And despite the $900 billion 'stimulus' bill, the one where unemployment was promised be held under 8%, the economy is not producing enough jobs to support our population growth, much less dig out of a recession. Don't worry though, the Bush tax cuts will be expiring soon, and new taxes will be kicking in. That will be great for job creation.

U.S. debt will outpace our own GDP by 2012.

Other that that, things are going swell. Consider this a rant
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Old 06-13-2010, 11:06 PM   #868
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how typically dopey.
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Old 06-14-2010, 02:11 PM   #869
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Why he didn't work with Governor Jindal to contain this thing.
Because Governor Jindal didn't want any of that messy "big government" interfering in various issues.

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Or maybe he'll just tell us who's ass will be kicked next
Hey, helps show "he's tough" to the Republicans.

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Afghanistan, the president's chosen war, is getting worse by the day. It's out of the news lately, the casualties, but it shouldn't be.

We can only hope that 'comprehensive' Wall Street reform and 'comprehensive' cap and tax energy reform sells better than 'comprehensive' health reform did. The administration has already began trotting out extra billions in supplemental payments for their new health program, which already had dubious cost estimates to start with. And we refuse to secure our southern border under current law, without, again, more 'comprehensive' reform. Anytime this administration mentions 'comprehensive reform', be wary.
Yes. It will be harder to do that when neither party wants to be mature adults and actually get anything done. When the Republicans just sit there and say "NO" to every single thing that comes up for consideration, even stuff THEY originally supported and came up with, and when the Democrats show themselves to be spineless and don't stand up for any good ideas they have, yeah, it's not going to lead to anything decent. Oh, and let's not forget both parties' love for lobbyists and pork. Campaign finance reform is what we truly need, and then perhaps some of this crap will start to end. Believe me, both parties definitely share the blame for this aspect of it all.

Costs, well, I'm no expert in financial stuff, but I thought I heard the healthcare bill wasn't nearly as costly as people thought it might be.

Afghanistan should definitely be dealt with. Yes. But no, no, we can't pull out and just leave (which is my personal suggestion), we have to stay behind to clean up our mess and fix, um, something. Whatever it is we have to fix there. Go tell the members of the military that are still insisting we need to stay there that message. Afghanistan's supposedly still the "necessary" war, which is why that one's still going. If you want it to stop, go tell the people who want it to continue for god knows how long.

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And despite the $900 billion 'stimulus' bill, the one where unemployment was promised be held under 8%, the economy is not producing enough jobs to support our population growth, much less dig out of a recession. Don't worry though, the Bush tax cuts will be expiring soon, and new taxes will be kicking in. That will be great for job creation.
As I understand it, those taxes are likely going to be targeting more upper-class people, not middle and lower class people. Which if that's the case, I have no problem with. Let them put a little more in for a change. Especially since they're the ones who likely supported and were able to pay politicians for a majority of the stuff that we've got going now. Let them foot the bill for this stuff, then.

Unemployment numbers aren't going to be pretty for a little while longer. But they are supposed to eventually start going down. I heard on TV a while back that the reason the unemployment numbers are higher is because now they're counting in people who have decided to begin looking for work again and who need to get on unemployment while they're looking. And then there's part-time workers (like my mom) who get added in, and then people who are unemployed and not looking, and so the numbers look higher as a result. I also know I've heard stories about jobs slowly being added each month. ADDED, not reduced. Iowa got over 7,000 new jobs back in April, I'll have to check to see what the numbers are for May. The unemployment won't fix itself overnight, it's going to take a bit to turn itself around.

And the reason we're in any of this mess to begin with has nothing to do with Obama, as he didn't cause any of it. No, it has to do with the guy that was running things for eight years before him. He started the Afghanistan war. He blew up our debt (we had a surplus when Clinton left office). He helped aid in a lot of people losing jobs, because he and Congress shipped a lot of them overseas or tried to employ the old trickle-down theory, which never works. He and his Republican buddies didn't want the federal government interfering in business and commerce. Interfere in your bedrooms and bodies, fine, they had no problem with that at all. But interfere in how a business runs things? Nah, not necessary. And didn't Bush put out a stimulus, too? And money went to various healthcare things they supported, too, including a Medicare one. Hm.

And yet, nobody complained nearly as much then as they are now. No massive Tea Parties formed under Bush's run complaining about his economic ideas. Protestors of the war, who knew this was going to be costly and hurt us in the long run emotionally and economically, were told they were "un-patriotic" and didn't love this country. Nobody thought about massive debt then. We don't want healthcare reform but, um, keep that Medicare thing, 'cause we do kinda like that. And so on. If people are really bothered about this stuff, where were you two years or more ago? We could've used you then. That's my biggest problem. Some of these complaints are valid ones, but I wish they'd been brought up a long time ago. Some of this stuff people should've seen coming during the entire time Bush was president, and should've called attention to it sooner. What took them so long, and why now?

Angela
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:15 PM   #870
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pretty much everyone agrees that the stimulus -- as well as TARP -- saved us from a second Great Depression. agreed, unemployment is still bad, but to view the stimulus as a waste seems to ignore common sense. many people think it should have been even bigger and genuinely retrained large swathes of the economy.
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