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Old 12-08-2002, 01:06 PM   #16
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Well think about it


when James kopp shot Dr. Slepian


Christian leaders openly said that that sort of violence is not acceptable and not condoned.


Now....all I hear from palestinian leadership is that "well suicide bombings are bad BUT......"



There is an overwhelmingly silent majority of islamic leaders around the world that are not stressing non violence as a means of protest.


How many non violent protests against israeli occupation do you see in the middle east?

Also you have the Saudi royal family...and ally of the US is funding terror on one end and denouncing it on the other...that's the strongest condemnation of violence in the middle east.

Where is the moderate press??? where are the moderate leaders? where is this commitment to peace ?


arafat had the best deal anyone could ask for on the table and turned it down. And then..turns around and tries to import arms from iran. Is that the most moderate leadership out there?

I'm not saying it's not their...but salman rushdie himself said that the moderate muslim population has to be more vocal. And I wholeheartedly agree.


American muslims are people I have a lot of symapthy and respect for they have had to put with and defend their faitha lot after 9/11 a position I don't particularly envy.
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Old 12-08-2002, 02:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arun V
Well think about it


when James kopp shot Dr. Slepian


Christian leaders openly said that that sort of violence is not acceptable and not condoned.


Now....all I hear from palestinian leadership is that "well suicide bombings are bad BUT......"



There is an overwhelmingly silent majority of islamic leaders around the world that are not stressing non violence as a means of protest.


How many non violent protests against israeli occupation do you see in the middle east?




arafat had the best deal anyone could ask for on the table and turned it down. And then..turns around and tries to import arms from iran. Is that the most moderate leadership out there?

I'm not saying it's not their...but salman rushdie himself said that the moderate muslim population has to be more vocal. And I wholeheartedly agree.


American muslims are people I have a lot of symapthy and respect for they have had to put with and defend their faitha lot after 9/11 a position I don't particularly envy.
yes
Arun this is part of my aggravation.



I did have a conversation w a person a bit more knowledgeable than I.
He said although most of the Muslim world is not openly violent the Shite Muslim which is about 20 percent is the most violent and feared by the majority.

I do not know if this is accurate or not.

I do not think a reg Muslim..a "Joe Muslim" wants to kill ppl of any religion.
Even though there was violence in their pasts and orgins of current day mainstream-

-Muslims
-Catholics
-Mormons
-Protestants

mainstream members of these faiths are not violent ppl.

Its high time the minstreamers stamp out the fringe lunatics of all faiths who choose to kill.

Out-
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
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I do not think a reg Muslim..a "Joe Muslim" wants to kill ppl of any religion.
Actually, I think the proper translation would be "Yusef Islam." That is the name Cat Stevens took when he converted to Islam, and it would translate to Joseph "Joe" Muslim. He did, however, accept the Ayatollah Khomeini's fatwa against Salman Rushdie, causing Natalie Merchant and 10,000 Maniacs to pull the Cat Stevens song "Peace Train" from all futute pressings of hte IN MY TRIBE CD.

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Old 12-09-2002, 10:28 PM   #19
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i see.
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Old 12-09-2002, 11:53 PM   #20
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i see.
i hereby declare to sing no more Cat Steven's songs at future Karaoke gigs

thank u-

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Old 12-10-2002, 07:52 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama


Actually, I think the proper translation would be "Yusef Islam." That is the name Cat Stevens took when he converted to Islam, and it would translate to Joseph "Joe" Muslim. He did, however, accept the Ayatollah Khomeini's fatwa against Salman Rushdie, causing Natalie Merchant and 10,000 Maniacs to pull the Cat Stevens song "Peace Train" from all futute pressings of hte IN MY TRIBE CD.

~U2Alabama
Yusuf Islam Issues A Formal Statement On The Rushdie Affair
By Yusuf Islam
March 2nd, 1989

Under Islamic Law, the ruling regarding blasphemy is quite clear; the person found guilty of it must be put to death. Only under certain circumstances can repentance be accepted.
On 21st February, I was speaking to a group of students at the Kingston Polytechnic, and in response to a question, I simply stated the Islamic ruling on the Rushdie affair. Suddenly. my picture was splashed on the front page of newspapers all over the world next to the headline: 'Kill Rushdie says Cat Stevens (Bio)'. It is very sad to see such irresponsibility from the 'free press' and I am totally abhorred.

My only crime was, I suppose, in being honest. I stood up and expressed my belief and I am in no way apologizing for it. I expressed the Islamic view based on the Qur'an, the Prophet's sayings (peace and blessings be upon him) and the rulings of the Caliphs and renowned schools of Islamic jurisprudence.

However, that is not to say I am encouraging people to break the law or take it into their own hands: far from it. Under the Islamic Law, Muslims are bound to keep within the limits of the law of the country in which they live, providing that it does not restrict the freedom to worship and serve God and fulfil their basic religious duties (fard'ayn). One must not forget the ruling in Islam is also very clear about adultery, stealing and murder, but that doesn't mean that British Muslims will go about lynching and stoning adulterers, theives and murderers. If we can't get satisfaction within the present limits of the law, like a ban on this blasphemous book, 'Satanic Verses' which insults God and His prophets - including those prophets honoured by Christians, Jews as well as Muslims - this does not mean that we should step outside of the law to find redress. No. If Mrs. Thatcher and her Government are unwilling to listen to our pleas, if our demonstrations and peaceful lobbying don't work, then perhaps the only alternative is for Muslims to get more involved in the political process of this country. It seems to be the only way left for us.

The fundimental issue which has put the non-Muslim world at loggerheads with Islam, is not that of the book or attempts to ban it. Indeed it is encouraging that many non-Muslims, including the Archbishop of Canterbury endore the request of Muslims that the Blasphemy Law be extended to cover the Islamic faith. When Jim Allen's play 'Perdition' was harassed out of existance by angry jews - some of whom burned an effigy of the writer - the British reaction was muted. The present attitude of the Government and press is obviously as a result of their opposition to the Islamic legal ruling that Rushdie should be executed and the fact that it has come from an Islamic country.

The fact is that as far as the application of Islamic Law and the implementation of full Islamic way of life in Britain is concerned, Muslims realize that there is very little chance of that happening in the near future. But that shouldn't stop us from trying to improve the situation and presenting the Islamic viewpoint wherever and whenever possible. That is the duty of ever Muslim and that is what I did.
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Old 12-10-2002, 10:10 PM   #22
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So basically Yusuf is saying that yes, Salman Rushdie deserves to die but he won't kill kil him in Britain because that's against british law and he'll end up in jail.

Nice.
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Old 12-10-2002, 10:14 PM   #23
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If there was ever an argument for complete separation of church and state...



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Old 12-10-2002, 10:19 PM   #24
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Yusuf's explanation is ambiguous at best.

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Old 12-10-2002, 10:19 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
If there was ever an argument for complete separation of church and state...
Well, maybe an argument against theocracies. Sometime the idea of separation of church and state is used to stifle a church.

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Old 12-10-2002, 10:26 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader



Sometime the idea of separation of church and state is used to stifle a church.

How so?
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Old 12-10-2002, 10:38 PM   #27
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Old 12-10-2002, 10:45 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Well, maybe an argument against theocracies. Sometime the idea of separation of church and state is used to stifle a church.
Yeah...it's used to prevent a church from forcing its beliefs on everyone. But you know what? It's necessary, because the last thing we need is religion and all of its irrational tendencies to start dictating "law." Mosaic Law, for instance, isn't exactly the pinnacle of "justice"; just an excuse for a bloodbath in the name of God.

And I've made a decision: if I ever become part of a school that starts mandating school prayer someday, I'll make sure to pray the "Hail Mary" every morning openly, and start asking for saints to pray for everyone and the conversion of Protestantism from its heretical ways.

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Old 12-10-2002, 10:45 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


How so?
psst..NB- DO NOT TAKE THE BAIT....


Peace-
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Old 12-10-2002, 11:07 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
And I've made a decision: if I ever become part of a school that starts mandating school prayer someday, I'll make sure to pray the "Hail Mary" every morning openly, and start asking for saints to pray for everyone and the conversion of Protestantism from its heretical ways.
Well, in your intelligent, humorous way you've highlighted the real reason why we should not have mandatory prayer in school.

I'd have to spend every evening explining to my son why we don't pray to earth spirits or St. Hubbins.
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