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Old 11-01-2002, 04:05 PM   #1
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My good friend Pat Buchanan...

So, Im watching tv at lunch today... And I swear to you all that I almost hit the ceiling and shot fire from my eyes. Good ol' right-wing-extremist Pat Buchanan, going on about Canada.

"Soviet Canuckistan"
What I discerned from that statement alone:
Soviet: apparently we're communist now, one of the arch-nemeses of the capitalistic United States.
Canuck: A friendly term for canadian EXCEPT when its being used as condescending slang.
-istan: As in AfghanISTAN. Essentially calling us all a bunch of terrorists.


Basically, he went on to talk about how canada is a safe-haven for potential terrorists (probably due to the 'cultural diversity') and he called for finger printing and background checks of all non-caucasian people crossing the borders who may be considered potential terrorists. Now, the idea of more stringent regulations regarding border crossings is one thing, a very necessary thing, but there are better ways then racial and cultural discrimination. Thats just fucking ridiculous. He essentially blamed Canada (cue the South Park song) for the terrorist attacks of September 11th. What the hell was the point of the whole anti-racism campaign if the government is going to be doing exactly what theyre saying not to do? It goes on anyway, and its sick, but this is cultural suicide.

<sarcasm/indignancy>
Im guessing the next step is re-institution of slavery, and abolishion of women's sufferage, gay-rights, and Canada for that matter, because blacks are nothing but criminals, women cant think for themselves, gays are god haters, and canada is a haven for them all. Im nearly physically ill at the thought he is somehow in a position of respect, and power, in that he has access to the media, to spew his almost nazi-like tripe across the US and propagandize the citizens into hating Canada because I mean everythings just our fault isnt it?
</sarcasm/indignancy>

Now its one thing to jokingly poke fun at canadians, but this is no joke. I take it as a personal insult that he would say such a thing, after canada stands by the US on nearly EVERY single thing they dictate because we've only ever had one prime minister with the BALLS to stand up for their political beliefs and not fall in with the rest of the crowd (Pierre Trudeau). If we're such terrorists, Pat, why dont you just declare war on us? We'll just see how many damn countries support you (the USA) when you declare war on the most beloved country in the world, the 'best place to live' in the world, the one who helps out everyone unquestioningly. We put up with so much bullshit via politics it isnt even funny, yet here we are still helping the war on terrorism after you bombed some of our troops, here we are still keeping the peace in countries we had very little involvement in the conflicts of, and here we are being called enemies of the united states by some white supremist peice of shit who wouldnt know a terrorist from a hole in the ground.

Whatever respect I had for american politicians before is now officially out the window. If you want to make a point about needing tighter securities on the border, the largest undefended border in the world, then make your point without slandering a nation, make your point without alienating several cultures, and make your point without misinforming the public.


Im so utterly pissed off. You dont even understand... ARGH.


"FUCK!... ASS!" ~ quote from the film Boondock Saints.
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Old 11-01-2002, 04:29 PM   #2
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I would really love to see a transcript of what he said.

Sorry you are so mad.

He is right, we need to tighten our borders.....And unfortunately, people who want to come to our country from countries where know terrorists have come from, should expect to be looked at more closely.

Again....as I have pointed out before...it is not racist nor is it prejudiced....it is self preservation.


Peace to all.
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Old 11-01-2002, 06:29 PM   #3
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LOL...

I guess I'm laughing, not because I don't take this seriously, but because you've dismissed all of America on the basis of:

1) Pat Buchanan, who is as close to being a self-professed Nazi, without actually saying it, as it gets.

(FYI, Buchanan has publically denied the existence of the Holocaust, amongst other things; that's why I have evoked the word "Nazi" only to refer to him.)

2) He's not a politician, nor is he even considered to be part of mainstream ideology. So much a right-wing extremist that he considers the Republican Party to be too liberal (hence, Buchanan's third-party run for the presidency in 2000).

We do need to tighten our borders, yes, but that was something that needed to be done a long time ago. The fact that so many illegal immigrants are able to make it to our soil--and, yes, there are Canadian illegal immigrants as well--has been and is a serious security risk. Canada is, indeed, fortunate enough to not be so hated around the world to require beefed up security, but--God forbid--if Canada were attacked by terrorists, I would expect it would only be natural that Canada would wish to tighten security as well.

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Old 11-01-2002, 06:43 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
LOL...



(FYI, Buchanan has publically denied the existence of the Holocaust, amongst other things; that's why I have evoked the word "Nazi" Melon
Melon-
I abhor Pat Buchanan..but DID he REALLY say this about the Holocast?
Really?
Tell me hes really not that far gone..
Hes always kind of scared me..

DB9
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Old 11-01-2002, 07:16 PM   #5
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Melon: Ive not dismissed all of america. Americans arent at all as "foolish" as the supposed stereotype dictates. I know that very well, trust me. I love Lilly to death, shes an american, shes nothing like that stereotypical ignorant eating machine which is the common american. There are lots of american posters on here who are exemplary people. There are very few people who in reality fit that bill, sure some people may be a little overweight, and sure some people may be a little uninformed on SOME very specific subjects, but ultimately there are far too many people with wonderful qualities to outweigh the bad ones that the stereotype is not at all credible. However, the few that do fit are the ones focused on, and the few always ruin it for the many.

Americans arent bad people most of the time, but this can be said about anyone, in my opinion though, there are far more Americans who are "good people" then there are "bad people" if we want to oversimplify things.

My greivance comes in the fact that the weak minded and uninformed individuals who may be penetrated by the 'Soviet Canuckistan' comment ammongst the other aspects of his little bullshitting session. The fact that he would even have the gall to disrespect one of americas closest allies to begin with is mind boggling. The fact that despite all Canada has done/is doing, we are still seen as nothing more than expendable to someone who obviously holds some political sway given that he is still in the media (for whatever reason I dont know). However, one person can cause question amongst many, I know that Buchanan is off his rocker, but just how many others are there who share his views? Im sure theres someone else amongst 200 million people. I think it was very irresponsible of the media to allow this to become headline news.


I agree that it is very necessary to tighten security, loss of life is not acceptable under 99.99999% of conditions. If it was 'choose one person in the world and kill them so that humanity may remain powerful and prosperous for the next millenia', should such a situation somehow come to be, there would be very few people that would hesitate in taking up that offer. But if its 'sure, we got attacked, and its all that bloody canadas fault. Their left-ist government is the death of all good americans! We must predjudice them and then finally crush them utterly!' its a whole different story. Someone in a position where they can influence so many people has no right to make completely groundless statements. ESPECIALLY someone as incredible as Buchanan.



Americans
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Buchanan
Terrorism
Media
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Old 11-01-2002, 07:39 PM   #6
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Originally posted by ~unforgettableFOXfire~
1. I love Lilly to death, shes an american, shes nothing like that stereotypical ignorant eating machine which is the common american.


2. Media


1. BUT it's not like i make up a slim minority of people. There are a lot of people who are more intelligent than I am in many areas. And loving me does not automatically mean you love Americans But, as we've previously discussed I, like many of my fellow Americans, fit a ton of American stererotypes. Diamond fits them, Melon fits them, I fit them...we are Americans.


2. The media has a finite roll in society and is tramping all over its boundaries.
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Old 11-01-2002, 08:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


Melon-
I abhor Pat Buchanan..but DID he REALLY say this about the Holocast?
Really?
Tell me hes really not that far gone..
Hes always kind of scared me..

DB9
OK...... Here is a list of his quotes.......Please.....base your own opinions of the man from his own words......

FoxFire....please do not take him seriously.


Pat Buchanan—Equal Opportunity Maligner

In recent days, Patrick Buchanan has been blaming the news media for dishonest reporting on his new book, A Republic, Not An Empire, which raises questions about U.S. intervention in World War II.

Since Buchanan is vehemently denying that he is bigoted toward Jews or anyone else, FAIR thought it was an appropriate time to reprint our 1996 compendium of Buchanan quotes documenting the presidential candidate's broad-ranging bigotry.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


FAIR Report: Pat Buchanan In His Own Words
February 26, 1996

Here is a sampling of Buchanan's views:

On African-Americans

After Sen. Carol Moseley Braun blocked a federal patent for a Confederate flag insignia, Buchanan wrote that she was "putting on an act" by associating the Confederacy with slavery: "The War Between the States was about independence, about self-determination, about the right of a people to break free of a government to which they could no longer give allegiance," Buchanan asserted. "How long is this endless groveling before every cry of 'racism' going to continue before the whole country collectively throws up?" (syndicated column, 7/28/93)

On race relations in the late 1940s and early 1950s: "There were no politics to polarize us then, to magnify every slight. The 'negroes' of Washington had their public schools, restaurants, bars, movie houses, playgrounds and churches; and we had ours." (Right from the Beginning, Buchanan's 1988 autobiography, p. 131)

Buchanan, who opposed virtually every civil rights law and court decision of the last 30 years, published FBI smears of Martin Luther King Jr. as his own editorials in the St. Louis Globe Democrat in the mid-1960s. "We were among Hoover's conduits to the American people," he boasted (Right from the Beginning, p. 283).

White House advisor Buchanan urged President Nixon in an April 1969 memo not to visit "the Widow King" on the first anniversary of Martin Luther King's assassination, warning that a visit would "outrage many, many people who believe Dr. King was a fraud and a demagogue and perhaps worse.... Others consider him the Devil incarnate. Dr. King is one of the most divisive men in contemporary history." (New York Daily News, 10/1/90)

In a memo to President Nixon, Buchanan suggested that "integration of blacks and whites -- but even more so, poor and well-to-do -- is less likely to result in accommodation than it is in perpetual friction, as the incapable are placed consciously by government side by side with the capable." (Washington Post, 1/5/92)

In another memo from Buchanan to Nixon: "There is a legitimate grievance in my view of white working-class people that every time, on every issue, that the black militants loud-mouth it, we come up with more money.... If we can give 50 Phantoms [jet fighters] to the Jews, and a multi-billion dollar welfare program for the blacks...why not help the Catholics save their collapsing school system." (Boston Globe, 1/4/92)

Buchanan has repeatedly insisted that President Reagan did so much for African-Americans that civil rights groups have no reason to exist: "George Bush should have told the [NAACP convention] that black America has grown up; that the NAACP should close up shop, that its members should go home and reflect on JFK's admonition: 'Ask not what your country can do for you, but rather ask what you can do for your country.'" (syndicated column, 7/26/88)

In a column sympathetic to ex-Klansman David Duke, Buchanan chided the Republican Party for overreacting to Duke and his Nazi "costume": "Take a hard look at Duke's portfolio of winning issues and expropriate those not in conflict with GOP principles, [such as] reverse discrimination against white folks." (syndicated column, 2/25/89)

Trying to justify apartheid in South Africa, he denounced the notion that "white rule of a black majority is inherently wrong. Where did we get that idea? The Founding Fathers did not believe this." (syndicated column, 2/7/90) He referred admiringly to the apartheid regime as the "Boer Republic": "Why are Americans collaborating in a U.N. conspiracy to ruin her with sanctions?" (syndicated column, 9/17/89)

On Immigrants And People Of Color

"There is nothing wrong with us sitting down and arguing that issue that we are a European country." (Newsday, 11/15/92)

Buchanan on affirmative action: "How, then, can the feds justify favoring sons of Hispanics over sons of white Americans who fought in World War II or Vietnam?" (syndicated column, 1/23/95)

In a September 1993 speech to the Christian Coalition, Buchanan described multiculturalism as "an across-the-board assault on our Anglo-American heritage."

"If we had to take a million immigrants in, say Zulus, next year, or Englishmen, and put them up in Virginia, what group would be easier to assimilate and would cause less problems for the people of Virginia?" ("This Week With David Brinkley," 1/8/91)

On Jews

Buchanan referred to Capitol Hill as "Israeli-occupied territory." (St. Louis Post Dispatch, 10/20/90)


During the Gulf crisis: "There are only two groups that are beating the drums for war in the Middle East -- the Israeli defense ministry and its 'amen corner' in the United States." ("McLaughlin Group," 8/26/90)

In a 1977 column, Buchanan said that despite Hitler's anti-Semitic and genocidal tendencies, he was "an individual of great courage...Hitler's success was not based on his extraordinary gifts alone. His genius was an intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path." (The Guardian, 1/14/92)

Writing of "group fantasies of martyrdom," Buchanan challenged the historical record that thousands of Jews were gassed to death by diesel exhaust at Treblinka: "Diesel engines do not emit enough carbon monoxide to kill anybody." (New Republic, 10/22/90) Buchanan's columns have run in the Liberty Lobby's Spotlight, the German-American National PAC newsletter and other publications that claim Nazi death camps are a Zionist concoction.

Buchanan called for closing the U.S. Justice Department's Office of Special Investigations, which prosecuted Nazi war criminals, because it was "running down 70-year-old camp guards." (New York Times, 4/21/87)

Buchanan was vehement in pushing President Reagan -- despite protests -- to visit Germany's Bitburg cemetery, where Nazi SS troops were buried. At a White House meeting, Buchanan reportedly reminded Jewish leaders that they were "Americans first" -- and repeatedly scrawled the phrase "Succumbing to the pressure of the Jews" in his notebook. Buchanan was credited with crafting Ronald Reagan's line that the SS troops buried at Bitburg were "victims just as surely as the victims in the concentration camps." (New York Times, 5/16/85; New Republic, 1/22/96)

After Cardinal O'Connor criticized anti-Semitism during the controversy over construction of a convent near Auschwitz, Buchanan wrote: "If U.S. Jewry takes the clucking appeasement of the Catholic cardinalate as indicative of our submission, it is mistaken. When Cardinal O'Connor of New York seeks to soothe the always irate Elie Wiesel by reassuring him 'there are many Catholics who are anti-Semitic'...he speaks for himself. Be not afraid, Your Eminence; just step aside, there are bishops and priests ready to assume the role of defender of the faith." (New Republic, 10/22/90)

The Buchanan '96 campaign's World Wide Web site included an article blaming the death of White House aide Vincent Foster on the Israeli intelligence agency, Mossad -- and alleging that Foster and Hillary Clinton were Mossad spies. (The campaign removed the article after its existence was reported by a Jewish on-line news service; Jewish Telegraphic Agency, 2/21/96.)

In his September 1993 speech to the Christian Coalition, Buchanan declared: "Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free." (ADL Report, 1994)

On Gays

In a 1972 memo to Richard Nixon, Buchanan referred to one of George McGovern's leading financial contributors as a "screaming fairy." (Newsday, 2/8/89) Buchanan has repeatedly used the term "sodomites," and has referred to gays as "the pederast proletariat." (Washington Post, 2/9/92)

"Homosexuality involves sexual acts most men consider not only immoral, but filthy. The reason public men rarely say aloud what most say privately is they are fearful of being branded 'bigots' by an intolerant liberal orthodoxy that holds, against all evidence and experience, that homosexuality is a normal, healthy lifestyle." (syndicated column, 9/3/89)

In a 1977 column urging a "thrashing" of gay groups, Buchanan wrote: "Homosexuality is not a civil right. Its rise almost always is accompanied, as in the Weimar Republic, with a decay of society and a collapse of its basic cinder block, the family." (New Republic, 3/30/92)

"Gay rights activists seek to substitute, for laws rooted in Judeo-Christian morality, laws rooted in the secular humanist belief that all consensual sexual acts are morally equal. That belief is anti-biblical and amoral; to codify it into law is to codify a lie." (Buchanan column in Wall Street Journal, 1/21/93)

On AIDS, Buchanan wrote in 1983: "The poor homosexuals -- they have declared war upon nature, and now nature is extracting an awful retribution (AIDS)." (Los Angeles Times, 11/28/86) Later that year, he demanded that New York City Ed Koch and New York Gov. Mario Cuomo cancel the Gay Pride Parade or else "be held personally responsible for the spread of the AIDS plague." "With 80,000 dead of AIDS, our promiscuous homosexuals appear literally hell-bent on Satanism and suicide," Buchanan wrote in 1990 (syndicated column, 10/17/90). In the 1992 campaign, he declared: "AIDS is nature's retribution for violating the laws of nature." (Seattle Times, 7/31/93)

On Women

"Rail as they will about 'discrimination,' women are simply not endowed by nature with the same measures of single-minded ambition and the will to succeed in the fiercely competitive world of Western capitalism." (syndicated column, 11/22/83)

"The real liberators of American women were not the feminist noise-makers, they were the automobile, the supermarket, the shopping center, the dishwasher, the washer-dryer, the freezer." (Right from the Beginning, p. 149)

"If a woman has come to believe that divorce is the answer to every difficult marriage, that career comes before children ... no democratic government can impose another set of values upon her." (Right from the Beginning, p. 341)

On Democracy

Attacking what he considers the "democratist temptation, the worship of democracy as a form of governance," Buchanan commented: "Like all idolatries, democratism substitutes a false god for the real, a love of process for a love of country." (Patrick J. Buchanan: From the Right, newsletter, Spring/90)

In a January, 1991 column, Buchanan suggested that "quasi-dictatorial rule" might be the solution to the problems of big municipalities and the federal fiscal crisis: "If the people are corrupt, the more democracy, the worse the government." (Washington Times, 1/9/91) He has written disparagingly of the "one man, one vote Earl Warren system."


In Right from the Beginning, Buchanan refers to Spanish dictator Francisco Franco as a "Catholic savior." He called Franco, along with Chile's Gen. Pinochet, "soldier-patriots." (syndicated column 9/17/89) Both men overthrew democracy in their countries.

Buchanan devotes a chapter of his autobiography -- "As We Remember Joe" -- to defending Senator Joe McCarthy. He advocated that Nixon "burn the tapes" during Watergate, and he criticized Reagan for failing to pardon Oliver North over Iran-contra.

Buchanan, shortly before he announced he was running for president in 1995: "You just wait until 1996, then you'll see a real right-wing tyrant." (The Nation, 6/26/95)
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Old 11-01-2002, 09:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
"The real liberators of American women were not the feminist noise-makers, they were the automobile, the supermarket, the shopping center, the dishwasher, the washer-dryer, the freezer." (Right from the Beginning, p. 149)

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Old 11-01-2002, 09:14 PM   #9
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Why! Why is this man not locked up!?


*throws buchanan into the theological dinosaur box*
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Old 11-01-2002, 09:44 PM   #10
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wink i'm doing a lot of tapping tonight honey

Quote:
Originally posted by ~unforgettableFOXfire~
Why! Why is this man not locked up!?


*throws buchanan into the theological dinosaur box*


*taps on 1st amendment*
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Old 11-01-2002, 10:26 PM   #11
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Soooo...Pat thinks that AIDS is a just punishment for homosexuality?!?! Gee, how nice (not to mention, perhaps he hasn't noticed the steady rise in AIDS among heterosexuals).

Pat Buchanan's a nutcase, plain and simple. .

Something tells me he and Dr. Laura would get along quite well.

Angela
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Old 11-01-2002, 10:30 PM   #12
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Re: i'm doing a lot of tapping tonight honey

Quote:
Originally posted by Lilly
*taps on 1st amendment*
The paradox between America and Europe:

1) In America, sex is "obscene" and censored, while hate is "freedom of speech."

2) In Europe, hate speech is outlawed like an obscenity, while sex is freedom of expression.

Which is better?

Melon
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Old 11-01-2002, 10:32 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
Something tells me he and Dr. Laura would get along quite well.
Fake "Dr." Laura (she's not a doctor whatsoever...a title she gave herself) and Buchanan wouldn't get along at all. She's an Orthodox Jew, and we all know how much Buchanan hates Jews.

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Old 11-01-2002, 10:35 PM   #14
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Re: Re: i'm doing a lot of tapping tonight honey

Quote:
Originally posted by melon


The paradox between America and Europe:

1) In America, sex is "obscene" and censored, while hate is "freedom of speech."

2) In Europe, hate speech is outlawed like an obscenity, while sex is freedom of expression.

Which is better?

Melon



Sex is obscene? Not in my house!


Ouch...wife just hit me....

I will take #1
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Old 11-01-2002, 11:53 PM   #15
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Re: Re: i'm doing a lot of tapping tonight honey

Quote:
Originally posted by melon


The paradox between America and Europe:

1) In America, sex is "obscene" and censored, while hate is "freedom of speech."

2) In Europe, hate speech is outlawed like an obscenity, while sex is freedom of expression.

Which is better?

Melon

I never said it was perfect. Yeah, it's insanity that we perform the above hypocricy...but we are slowly - sssslllooowwwwllllyyyy - overcoming it.












*did i mention slowly?
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