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Old 06-05-2007, 11:25 AM   #91
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Look at the way you're framing it.

Would you say, "I have had several friends who practice caucasianism?"
This is the perfect example of what I'm talking about -- this is the collision of the two perspectives. It's apples and oranges people. One side says it's natural, one doesn't. Both sides need to realize what the other is saying.
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:26 AM   #92
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One reason its worth "bending backwards" for "Christians" is simply because of numbers. If I lived in a land where its the majority of its member identified themselves as "muslim"....it might be beneficial for me, as a civil citizen, to understand where they were coming from. The US has many many people who identify themselves as Christian. For this reason, if for no other reason, it might be helpful to see where they derive their beliefs and understandings.
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:29 AM   #93
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I don't agree with premarital sex. Any friends that I have that do it...in my mind practice premarital sex. I don't hate them for it, but I don't agree with the practice. I suppose that is my belief about homosexuality. Your perspective differs, and I am ok with that.
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:36 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


This is the perfect example of what I'm talking about -- this is the collision of the two perspectives. It's apples and oranges people. One side says it's natural, one doesn't. Both sides need to realize what the other is saying.
I agree to a certain point, but I don't need to realize those that ignore science.

I've said this before and no one's responded to it, but the 'homosexuality is a sin' is the only sin pushed by "Christians" that doesn't also have some sort of social scientific or logical reasoning behind it as well. Why is that? Why just this one?
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:40 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


This is the perfect example of what I'm talking about -- this is the collision of the two perspectives. It's apples and oranges people. One side says it's natural, one doesn't. Both sides need to realize what the other is saying.


but understanding where someone is coming from doesn't make, say, creationism any more true. it just makes it more false.
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:43 AM   #96
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I agree to a certain point, but I don't need to realize those that ignore science.

I've said this before and no one's responded to it, but the 'homosexuality is a sin' is the only sin pushed by "Christians" that doesn't also have some sort of social scientific or logical reasoning behind it as well. Why is that? Why just this one?
That's a great point. I think it stands out because deals with sexuality and a form of sexuality that's very different than what most people experience.

You're right though, it shoudn't be singled out as much as it is, even if it is in fact not natural for all or most. We all sin. We all disappoint God and fail to live up to his standards. If homosexuality is or isn't a sin, a homosexual still needs forgiveness through Christ. Not because they're bad people, but because they're sinful like me and everyone else.
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:43 AM   #97
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And that's a perspective I'm trying to understand and respect. That's the perspective Christians need to hear. When the two sides actually listen to each other rather than condemn or judge, we'll get closer to peace on the issue.


but it's not a perspective. it's not an opinion. it is a fact, insofar as the universal agreement of doctors and psychologists can be considered a fact. homosexuality is a naturally occuring, inalterable orientation, it's every bit as innate as heterosexuality, and the only damage done by homosexuality is when someone is attempts to "cure" someone of it or when one grows up in a homophobic society.

it's a bit like the evolution thing i was talking about. creationism holds no scientific water. none. scientifically, it's 100% bogus. i see no reason to respect it or understand it as a valid perspective.
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:44 AM   #98
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Originally posted by Irvine511




but understanding where someone is coming from doesn't make, say, creationism any more true. it just makes it more false.
Yes, but it at least allows meaningful dialogue to take place. Isn't that worth it? Is your objective of educating people with the other perspective going to take place otherwise?
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:45 AM   #99
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Depends on what you mean by creationism. There is no scientific proof that says that there was or was not a creator. Science does say that the earth and its creatures changed through time, but it doesn't say that there wasn't a mind behind it.
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:45 AM   #100
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Originally posted by popsadie
I don't agree with premarital sex. Any friends that I have that do it...in my mind practice premarital sex. I don't hate them for it, but I don't agree with the practice. I suppose that is my belief about homosexuality. Your perspective differs, and I am ok with that.


i've been in a relationship for 2 years and we are totally in love with one another and if we were heterosexual, marriage would be entering the picture right now.

is this "practicing" homosexuality?

or is it just the ass fucking that christians seem so obsessed with that is the "practice" of homosexuality?

love, commitment, sharing lives together, trust, friendship ... these are all "practices" of homosexuals as well.
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:47 AM   #101
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Originally posted by Irvine511



but it's not a perspective. it's not an opinion. it is a fact, insofar as the universal agreement of doctors and psychologists can be considered a fact. homosexuality is a naturally occuring, inalterable orientation, it's every bit as innate as heterosexuality, and the only damage done by homosexuality is when someone is attempts to "cure" someone of it or when one grows up in a homophobic society.
Don't tell that to me, tell it to people with differing views.

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it's a bit like the evolution thing i was talking about. creationism holds no scientific water. none. scientifically, it's 100% bogus. i see no reason to respect it or understand it as a valid perspective.
If you want people with differing views than your's to respect your's, than maybe you should respect where they're coming from and understand that they, whether they're right or wrong, have convictions, too. It may not be right, but it's valid to them.
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:49 AM   #102
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Originally posted by coemgen

If you want people with differing views than your's to respect your's, than maybe you should respect where they're coming from and understand that they, whether they're right or wrong, have convictions, too. It may not be right, but it's valid to them.


but i can only do this to a point.

if someone is going to keep insisting to me that the sky is purple, i see no reason to respect that perspective.
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:49 AM   #103
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Great...and if your mind is at peace with it, go for it. I'm not going to try to stop you and I am not going to try to "cure" you. Personally, I am for civil unions. I understand why the church is hesitant to perform religious marriages, but I don't think that a civil state that is not a theocracy has a right to ban non relgious unions.
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:52 AM   #104
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Originally posted by coemgen


That's a great point. I think it stands out because deals with sexuality and a form of sexuality that's very different than what most people experience.

And this I think is the issue. Fear of the minority, for some reason it's ingrained in human beings. And they've used religion to justify these fears since the dawn of time.

Interracial marriage, women's rights, etc...
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:56 AM   #105
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Originally posted by popsadie
Great...and if your mind is at peace with it, go for it. I'm not going to try to stop you and I am not going to try to "cure" you. Personally, I am for civil unions. I understand why the church is hesitant to perform religious marriages, but I don't think that a civil state that is not a theocracy has a right to ban non relgious unions.


we totally agree here.

but do you understand why it's offensive to refer to a sexual orientation as a "practice"?

you're reducing whole people and relationships into a sex act.
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