MERGED==> The politics of Katrina + Trent Lott + Michael Moore - Page 17 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-03-2005, 09:47 PM   #241
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


It is in many parts of the world.

And some of the finest institutions in the world, like Oxford and Cambridge have tuition rates for home students which are neglible compared to the shittiest US schools.

If you want to subsidize education, you can. Where there is a will there is a way.
It's just a matter of priorities. Apparently in the US we place great value on big honking SUVs (people can get tax breaks on the very largest ones) and the gas to power them.
__________________

__________________
indra is offline  
Old 09-04-2005, 03:02 AM   #242
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BonosSaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,566
Local Time: 09:07 AM
Everywhere, including here, all of everything will be spin. I despair of anything ever really changing except to disintegrate further. On the whole, FYM is a smart and compassionate group. It's been fun.
__________________

__________________
BonosSaint is offline  
Old 09-04-2005, 06:11 AM   #243
Blue Crack Addict
 
phanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: in the darkness on the edge of town
Posts: 25,062
Local Time: 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


There were people arriving in Houston from the Superdome within 48 hours of the passing of the storm. That is after a major place of refuge was deemed no-longer suitable.



I guess now that most of us have broadband, we turn our nose at dial-up response times to anything.
It was a little bit more than 48 hours before that happened, and when people are dying, you're damn right things should be done faster than they were. A helicopter can drop food and supplies into the middle of the desert in Iraq - it could and should have been done immediately after this storm hit as well. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way.

Why do people completely miss the point of criticizing this? If it was Clinton in there instead of Bush, I'd be just as pissed, and I'm sure most others here would be too.

Your comments are, quite frankly, sad to read.
__________________
phanan is offline  
Old 09-04-2005, 08:06 AM   #244
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 08:07 AM
My minister...probably the most liberal person I know gave a great sermon today.

She spoke about blame and her horror at the fact that we are so very quick to point the finger of blame, yet there are still people needing help and rescuing. She said there will be plenty of time to point the finger of blame, but, that energies should be used elswhere so that as many lives can be saved as possible.



Our church and the interfaith alliance that has been built in our communitity are also looking into getting local housing to help people relocate until they are able to come home.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 09-04-2005, 09:00 AM   #245
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 01:07 PM
Your minister is right Dread. The Blame Game has become America's most popular parlor game. We need to focus on helping the people of the Gulf. It's desperate. There have obviously been screw-ups but perhaps the press is overstating the case. I'm so far behind on my news it's pathetic. I didn't get my cable connection back until last night.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 09-04-2005, 09:08 AM   #246
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 01:07 PM
Not sure where this originated or who actually wrote it but it was emailed to me so I thought I'd pass it along - apologies if it's been posted already.
_________________________

Friday, September 2nd, 2005

Dear Mr. Bush:

Any idea where all our helicopters are? It's Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.

Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren't there to begin with?

Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty. Eleven people died and, as of today, there were still homes without power. That night the weatherman said this storm was on its way to New Orleans. That was Thursday! Did anybody tell you? I know you didn't want to interrupt your vacation and I know how you don't like to get bad news. Plus, you had fundraisers to go to and mothers of dead soldiers to ignore and smear. You sure showed her!

I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?

And don't listen to those who, in the coming days, will reveal how you specifically reduced the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for New Orleans this summer for the third year in a row. You just tell them that even if you hadn't cut the money to fix those levees, there weren't going to be any Army engineers to fix them anyway because you had a much more important construction job for them -- BUILDING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ!

On Day 3, when you finally left your vacation home, I have to say I was moved by how you had your Air Force One pilot descend from the clouds as you flew over New Orleans so you could catch a quick look of the disaster. Hey, I know you couldn't stop and grab a bullhorn and stand on some rubble and act like a commander in chief. Been there done that.

There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you. Just have your people keep pointing that out. Respond to nothing. Even those pesky scientists who predicted this would happen because the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter making a storm like this inevitable. Ignore them and all their global warming Chicken Littles. There is nothing unusual about a hurricane that was so wide it would be like having one F-4 tornado that stretched from New York to Cleveland.

No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!

You hang in there, Mr. Bush. Just try to find a few of our Army helicopters and send them there. Pretend the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are near Tikrit.

Yours,

Michael Moore
__________________
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 09-04-2005, 09:42 AM   #247
War Child
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 787
Local Time: 06:07 AM
I don't feel that the blame game has taken over.

As for myself, I am just shocked that we were so unprepared for some immediate aid (first 5 days). I feel strongly that many have taken all the shock and disgust as typical blame-game politics. But my shock and disgust is from the tragedy itself and our leaders apparent lack of grave concern from the very earliest hours. This has no political boundaries for me, as the democrats have failed to push any agenda since the terror tragedy in New York. Their job is to keep topics being ignored made known.

But as many have pointed out the time for that blame is not now.
On that point, I really must say that my shock, horror, and disgust in real and of no political motivation, and I feel that may be true for a majority.
__________________
jay canseco is offline  
Old 09-04-2005, 10:00 AM   #248
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
hiphop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the jungle
Posts: 7,410
Local Time: 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by jay canseco
I feel strongly that many have taken all the shock and disgust as typical blame-game politics.
The easy way out: blame-game card.

Saw that Fox report, Hannity Colmes and Smith Rivera, right in/at the Convention center?

Gimme a break.. Fox is known to be very supportive of the administration and usually they´re pretty biased, and everyone knows. And still people have the nerve to say for a natural disaster no one should be blamed. Well guess what: no one is blamed for Katrina - but the politicians and agencies are for the way they´re dealing with it.

I know it´s not easy to get hundredthousands out. But obviously I could have been done faster and there were no appropriate plans for such a disaster.

And I will tell you right now it will be exactly the same next time.

What are the people gonna do if a nuclear power plant blows up, they have to flee into non-radioactive emergencies, and many of them are without a car? They will be left on the street to die. What will happen when the people realize that they can´t eat the food stocked at the non-radioactive emergency center? Because the Department of HS and FEMA forgot to keep the food fresh and it´s been lying around there for 2 years?
__________________
hiphop is offline  
Old 09-04-2005, 11:44 AM   #249
Refugee
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,435
Local Time: 01:07 PM
As far as whose head may or may not roll.

Politically, this may end up a lot like the aftermath of 9/11. Bush will urge a delay in any Congressional hearing so he will have time to successfully shift some of the blame to the local level (the conveniently Democratic mayor and governor. I smell a lot fo potential new Frican-American "red" votes! Esp in Texas if the poor stay there. IN addition to the genuine humantirarian concern, down the road, the Texas governor will find politcal opportunity as well.)A lot of the blame will get shifted to the lower levels as usual. The heads of FEMA and Homeland Security are not only Bush appointees but personal friends. So they will keep their jobs (just as Trent Lott, Bill Frist, Tom DeLay, and Karl Rove have. Speaking of Frist...he's going some way to redeem himself by personally toruing places where people in NOLA are suffering. You didn't expect Bush to show up in any of the well-documented hellholes in NOLA, but aides should have determined, or he should have wanted, to go to place where people were suffering and spend time there. The hospital patient evacuees at the airport where Frist is were a sight not too terrible for Presidential eyes. The airport triage center was operating the precise same time he arrived in the city on Fri. )

But one thing he will not be able to dodge is the economic ripples and effect, at the least. I imagine that right now he and aides are busily seeking to classify or destroy any possible documents, if they exist, reagarding FEMA and Homeland Security's actions the past week, and esp the botched 2004 funding for the levy repair, that critics say went to Iriaq instead. They may be able to escape taint for that. Proving that one-third of the LA National Gaurd personnel and fully HALF of its material (trucks, choppers, etc) was in Iraq at the time, how they will dodge that, will be more difficult.

I just hope the poor Mayor does not become the scapegoat for all this. It will be easy to put all the blame on him. In Bush's eyes, he is the worst sort of apostate. In a time when he is triyng to reach out to black voters, Nagin was a former Republican who switched parties in 2002 and successfully ran for mayor. Now, his office no longer exists. And when NOLA rebuilds, of course he's history. Nobody has clean hands in this, but Nagin's, IMO, are the least dirty of all. There was only so much he could do, and in these disasters, they should be run from the top-down. We know the anguish that man is feeling. I watched an interview with him this morning. He was well-dressed and polite and sedate. What a contrast from Fri. What must be going through his mind...

Blancho is toast. Governor-wise, LA will go Red. I think that's a given. I just hope that a Republican version of Huey Long will not arise. For those of you who don't know who he was or the circumstances of his rise to power in the 30's, now is a good time to learn. And remember, for those of you who do know, he had Presidential aspirations, and Roosevelt was openly afriad of him. The only thing that stopped him from possibly becoming President in the late 30's was an assassin's bullet. A good book is "A Nation In Torment: America In The Years Of The Great Depression" by Gary Nash. I learned alot aobut politcal stupidity in that book. AN interesting comment is how much Herbert Hoover was like W. In 1930-32, the worst yrs of the Depression, he was like W "small government" minded and extremely close to business interests. In the early 30's, people were pressuring the Feds to organise an agency and funding for the victims and jobles etc, but he kep relegating authroity for the consequences of the Depression to the States. Even when there were food riots and angry marches and outright starvation in America ( in 1931 alone, there were 5 or 6 major hospitals in NYC that documented 100+ death a year from starvation) he still refused Federal funding for Depression relief. This was alarge part of why he FDR got in, when the country used to hate FDR. And hence, FDR going 360 degrees in the opposite diection..the New Deal. Interesting stuff, about people and politcal parties and social unreast and economics. What we have today is the biggest dpsplacement of people since the Dust Bowl. As thw Chinese say, May you live in interesting times...I recommend this great book to everyone.

As far as politcal ripples, it makes no diff to me if Bush stays or resigns. There will be Deomocratic sniping calling for his gead, I"m sure. So far, though, they are being smart, and keeping quiet. As long as the Dems keep quiet, and let Bush hang himself ( A tactic that Reiad has perfected so far) they MAY have a chance of getting back Congress next year.

I imagine, that there were many in the Republican party who we already know have Presidential aspirations ( Frist, Guliani, and now my dear Governor, George Pataki) may laready have been chafing under Bush's bit, and had not liked him. I am sure now that some of them may even now be thinking the whole Adminstration a bunch of bumbling folls and privately cursing and despising the name of Bush. They may be planning an all-out assault on Jeb should he decide to run in 2008, and of course Jeb will run. The Bush dynasty must continue, right? What will be interesting is how much the ripple effect of Katrina may have on the Republican Party. I am predicting that even if the Republicans manage to keep control of Congress, few in the Republican party will want to hang on to W's coattails. The name of Bush will become politcal poison, just as Clinton's did after Monicagate. This is not factoring into the Iraq dilemma if the contry has a civil war in the next 3 yrs. SO far, the results even before their elections don't look good. Can Jeb realistically run now, without incurring the wrath of his own party (and you KNOW JEb will try to play up his own favorable hurricane relief experiences, in contrast with his bro's. But that won't wash, next to Frist being in the trenches in the aftermath. Today he 's not only doing some good humanitarian work, but playing good politics.) And of course, whoever Karl Rove supports, is the one who runs for Prez. Guliani is an iconic figure. Can he successfully challenge Jeb for the nomination? What if Karl Rove tells his pal W in 2007 that the polls show America is sick of the name Bush, and that the Republican ticket is better served with Guliani? Would he tolerate that, or fight the advice?

It will be interesting to see the political fallout. But if there are no hearings on Katrina before the en dof the year, it would be a disgrace. If these idiots in charge of Homeland Security and FEMA are not FIRED, it will be a disgrace. The American people are already indeirectly suffering from the diversion of badly needed domestic funds to Iraq. Now, they are going to suffer more b/c of this. With the refugees, the oil shortages, the loss of the Mississippi as a major import and export area for weeks (months?) it;s hard to imagine how this could nbot affect the economy for years. And then, we'll have to find jobs for the refugees. And how can the HMO"s go on as suail, when so many need medical care? Tikme sof great social shcange usually come in the wake of disasters.

And now the 2 court vacancies. Even if the Court goes 6-3 Right, how can anyone for example, realisticaly hear an affirmative action case now? how can anyone realistically support doing away with it? WIll there be public pressure to support social programs they otherwise wouldn't support? How much of Bush's domestic agenda can survive now?

This is a test, America..a test....and God is watching.
__________________
Teta040 is offline  
Old 09-04-2005, 12:14 PM   #250
Acrobat
 
BorderGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Under A Blood Red Texas Sky
Posts: 418
Local Time: 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by indra


SUVs (people can get tax breaks on the very largest ones) and the gas to power them.
Can you elaborate on the tax breaks details of this?
__________________
BorderGirl is offline  
Old 09-04-2005, 12:18 PM   #251
Blue Crack Distributor
 
corianderstem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 63,730
Local Time: 05:07 AM
The media can talk about blame all it wants. They're not responsible for getting help to the area. The governments, whether local or federal, need to focus on getting everyone else.

The media will keep harping on what it wants, and no one should be surprised when it does exactly that.

As for Michael Moore, while I might agree with the basic sentiment, he needs to drop the childish tone and over-the-top sarcasm if he wants people to listen to him. I think even the liberals aren't paying much attention to him anymore.
__________________
corianderstem is offline  
Old 09-04-2005, 12:30 PM   #252
Blue Crack Supplier
 
kellyahern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 8 years and I still can't think of anything witty to put here
Posts: 34,698
Local Time: 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by jay canseco
I don't feel that the blame game has taken over.

As for myself, I am just shocked that we were so unprepared for some immediate aid (first 5 days). I feel strongly that many have taken all the shock and disgust as typical blame-game politics. But my shock and disgust is from the tragedy itself and our leaders apparent lack of grave concern from the very earliest hours. This has no political boundaries for me, as the democrats have failed to push any agenda since the terror tragedy in New York. Their job is to keep topics being ignored made known.

But as many have pointed out the time for that blame is not now.
On that point, I really must say that my shock, horror, and disgust in real and of no political motivation, and I feel that may be true for a majority.
__________________
kellyahern is offline  
Old 09-04-2005, 02:01 PM   #253
Blue Crack Supplier
 
kellyahern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 8 years and I still can't think of anything witty to put here
Posts: 34,698
Local Time: 09:07 AM
Quote:
there was a striking dicrepancy between the CNN International report on the Bush visit to the New Orleans disaster zone, yesterday, and reports of the same event by German TV.

ZDF News reported that the president's visit was a completely staged event. Their crew witnessed how the open air food distribution point Bush visited in front of the cameras was torn down immediately after the president and the herd of 'news people' had left and that others which were allegedly being set up were abandoned at the same time.

The people in the area were once again left to fend for themselves, said ZDF.
__________________
kellyahern is offline  
Old 09-04-2005, 02:11 PM   #254
Blue Crack Supplier
 
kellyahern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 8 years and I still can't think of anything witty to put here
Posts: 34,698
Local Time: 09:07 AM
From Meet the Press this morning:

SEC'Y CHERTOFF: Michael Brown got on TV in Saturday and he said to people in New Orleans, "Take this seriously. There is a storm coming." On Friday there was discussion about the fact that even though this storm could fall anywhere along the Gulf, people had to be carefully monitoring it. We were watching it on Saturday and Sunday. The president was on a videoconference on Sunday telling us we've got to do everything possible to be prepared. But you know, Tim, at the end of the day, this is the ground truth: The only way to avoid a catastrophic problem in that soup bowl is to have people leave before the hurricane hits. Those who got out are fine. Those who stayed in faced one of the most horrible experiences in their life.

MR. RUSSERT: But that's the point. Those who got out were people with SUVs and automobiles and air fares who could get out. Those who could not get out were the poor who rely on public buses to get out. Your Web site says that your department assumes primary responsibility for a national disaster. If you knew a hurricane 3 storm was coming, why weren't buses, trains, planes, cruise ships, trucks provided on Friday, Saturday, Sunday to evacuate people before the storm?

later in the program:
interview with Jefferson Parish President Broussard

"MR. RUSSERT: Hold on. Hold on, sir. Shouldn't the mayor of New Orleans and the governor of New Orleans bear some responsibility? Couldn't they have been much more forceful, much more effective and much more organized in evacuating the area?

MR. BROUSSARD: Sir, they were told like me, every single day, "The cavalry's coming," on a federal level, "The cavalry's coming, the cavalry's coming, the cavalry's coming." I have just begun to hear the hoofs of the cavalry. The cavalry's still not here yet, but I've begun to hear the hoofs, and we're almost a week out.

Let me give you just three quick examples. We had Wal-Mart deliver three trucks of water, trailer trucks of water. FEMA turned them back. They said we didn't need them. This was a week ago. FEMA--we had 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel on a Coast Guard vessel docked in my parish. The Coast Guard said, "Come get the fuel right away." When we got there with our trucks, they got a word. "FEMA says don't give you the fuel." Yesterday--yesterday--FEMA comes in and cuts all of our emergency communication lines. They cut them without notice. Our sheriff, Harry Lee, goes back in, he reconnects the line. He posts armed guards on our line and says, "No one is getting near these lines." Sheriff Harry Lee said that if America--American government would have responded like Wal-Mart has responded, we wouldn't be in this crisis.

But I want to thank Governor Blanco for all she's done and all her leadership. She sent in the National Guard. I just repaired a breach on my side of the 17th Street canal that the secretary didn't foresee, a 300-foot breach. I just completed it yesterday with convoys of National Guard and local parish workers and levee board people. It took us two and a half days working 24/7. I just closed it.

MR. RUSSERT: All right.

MR. BROUSSARD: I'm telling you most importantly I want to thank my public employees...

MR. RUSSERT: All right.

MR. BROUSSARD: ...that have worked 24/7. They're burned out, the doctors, the nurses. And I want to give you one last story and I'll shut up and let you tell me whatever you want to tell me. The guy who runs this building I'm in, emergency management, he's responsible for everything. His mother was trapped in St. Bernard nursing home and every day she called him and said, "Are you coming, son? Is somebody coming?" And he said, "Yeah, Mama, somebody's coming to get you. Somebody's coming to get you on Tuesday. Somebody's coming to get you on Wednesday. Somebody's coming to get you on Thursday. Somebody's coming to get you on Friday." And she drowned Friday night. She drowned Friday night.

MR. RUSSERT: Mr. President...

MR. BROUSSARD: Nobody's coming to get us. Nobody's coming to get us. The secretary has promised. Everybody's promised. They've had press conferences. I'm sick of the press conferences. For God sakes, shut up and send us somebody. "

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/
__________________
kellyahern is offline  
Old 09-04-2005, 02:13 PM   #255
Blue Crack Supplier
 
kellyahern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 8 years and I still can't think of anything witty to put here
Posts: 34,698
Local Time: 09:07 AM
MR. RUSSERT: Welcome all.

By now this animation by NBC News has become very familiar. It shows exactly how New Orleans is that so-called bathtub, a city in between the Mississippi River and Lake Pontchartrain. And when those levees break, the city can be flooded and disaster can occur.

Mark Fischetti, you wrote an article for Scientific American 2001...

MR. MARK FISCHETTI: Right.

MR. RUSSERT: ...and you basically predicted this very thing happening.

MR. FISCHETTI: Right. The article came out in 2001. It was based on computer models that Louisiana State University had been running for several years. A plan had been put together in 1998 already by scientists and engineers what could be done to protect New Orleans if a Category 4 or 5 hurricane came from the south as it did.

MR. RUSSERT: So when the president and Secretary Chertoff say, "We were surprised that the levees were breached," were you surprised?

MR. FISCHETTI: I wasn't surprised. I felt sick Sunday night myself having written this piece and seen the computer models about what could happen in this very instance. I wasn't the only one to write about it. Others have written about it. The models have been out there.
__________________

__________________
kellyahern is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com