MERGED: Madrid Bombing

[pepokiss]

so... their up to 200 deaths...

and it looks it wasn't ETA... some other group did it...
ETA already called and said they didn't do it...

Who did it?

 

[Sue DeNym]

Re: Re: NOW can you understand us???

Some say that in order to stop them; we must go down to the root of the problem, to understand why are they doing it. But how can one understand an intentional killing of innocence people? Nothing justifies it.

You are right. We must not stoop to their level. No decent human being can comprehend the thought processes of terrorists. It makes no sense; if they're making a statement, do they really believe killing innocent civilians will rally the masses to their causes?!

I am sickened that this is still happening, escalating in fact. All it is is total, depraved evil. Has the human race learned nothing from history?

So far, the most humane solution seems to be the covert military actions to go after the terrorists and not harm innocent civilians. Unfortunately, that takes a lot of time, personell and money. And in the meanwhile, the terrorists will kill again and again.

 

[Salome]

well, at least they arrested 5 people today
so this might at least shed some light on the question: why?

 

[verte76]

The five people arrested are Muslims. Three are from Morocco, and two are Spaniards of Indian descent. There's not any more information, but I'll bet they are Wahhabists who want to screw Spain because it's Europe and a U.S. ally. It doesn't seem to be clear if there is an Al Qaeda connection.

 

[Inis]

Re: Re: NOW can you understand us???

We?re doing it for god knows how long. It may have reduced the number of the attacks at times, but it never really stopped them. The sad truth is that if the terrorists really want to carry out an attack, eventually they?ll manage to do so.

Some say that in order to stop them; we must go down to the root of the problem, to understand why are they doing it. But how can one understand an intentional killing of innocence people? Nothing justifies it. Terrorists killed people that I knew, dear dear people, but I?m not going around trying to blow up Palestinians.

Maybe with the Palestinians and us a peace agreement will solve things out (although now it seems light years away). But regarding al-queada, it?s hard to see any solution. As long as they?ll keep holding to their ideology, what can stop them from carrying out attacks?

My deepest smpathies, for your loss, Sarit.

 

[fah]

My heart goes out to the people of Spain and everyone else living where daily terror is a way of life. I think peace is something a lot of us take for granted.

 

[beli]

I have a meeting tomorrow with a guy from ISER - the people that provided the evacuation training for the Sydney Olympics. It will be interesting to get his opinion on Madrid.

 

[Laura M]

My thoughts are with the families who have been affected by this terrible tragedy.
I can't watch this on the news some of the images are very upsetting.

 

[DrTeeth]

The five people arrested are Muslims. Three are from Morocco, and two are Spaniards of Indian descent. There's not any more information, but I'll bet they are Wahhabists who want to screw Spain because it's Europe and a U.S. ally. It doesn't seem to be clear if there is an Al Qaeda connection.

They could just as well be ordinary people who were at the wrong place at the wrong time.

The 'opinion' of the Spanish government troubles me. I have the feeling they point at ETA because that might win them some more votes, while an Al Qaida connection could cost them. Call me a cynic I guess.

 

[verte76]

They could just as well be ordinary people who were at the wrong place at the wrong time.

The 'opinion' of the Spanish government troubles me. I have the feeling they point at ETA because that might win them some more votes, while an Al Qaida connection could cost them. Call me a cynic I guess.

Well considering the fact that they had an election today I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was some politics involved. In fact some people had some anti-government demonstrations today claiming that the politicians weren't telling them everything.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

The 'opinion' of the Spanish government troubles me. I have the feeling they point at ETA because that might win them some more votes, while an Al Qaida connection could cost them. Call me a cynic I guess.

I guess I'm also a cynic then. The Popular party definitely have something to lose by saying the attacks could have been the work of al Qaeda. It's not really suprising that they were very quick to blame ETA, despite ETA's denial of responsibility and the other indicators that it might have been al Qaeda.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

The latest election news is that the Socialists seem to have a slight lead over the Popular party.

Spain's opposition Socialist party appears to be taking the lead in the general election with 30% of votes counted, exit polls show.
The Socialists have won 44% of the vote while the Popular Party has garnered 36%, reports say.

More at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3511280.stm

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Update: The Socialist party have won.

Spain's ruling Popular Party has admitted an unexpected defeat in the country's general election with almost all the votes counted.
The Socialists won 43% of the vote while the centre-right Popular Party has garnered 38%, reports say.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3511280.stm

 

[DrTeeth]

It's disturbing to see how the right bomb at the right time can sway an election.

 

[anitram]

It's disturbing to see how the right bomb at the right time can sway an election.

Isn't that the truth.

It will be interesting to see what stance the Socialists take towards the US and the coalition. Spain may be on its way out...

 

[Dreadsox]

I suppose if you believe that they targeted Spain because of Iraq, then yes, Spain will be pulling out.

However, Al-Qaeda, if they did indeed do this, would certainly be smart enough to say publicly it was about Iraq. However, SPain has been a huge partner in helping dismantal Al-Qaeda's organization. If they publicly came out and said "We hit Spain because they have hurt out organization" it would be much less effective at causing the outcry against the party that was in power.

[Q]AP: Madrid Suspect Linked to 9/11 Figure


Email this Story

Mar 14, 5:16 PM (ET)

By ANDREW SELSKY


MADRID, Spain (AP) - One of the three Moroccans arrested in the Madrid train bombings is linked to a suspected al-Qaida member jailed in Spain for allegedly helping plan the Sept. 11 attack in the United States, according to court documents reviewed by The Associated Press. It was the latest suggestion that Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida terrorist group may have been involved in the bombings.[/Q]

Maybe the truth is, they went after Sapin because of the War against them.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040314/D81ADJH80.html

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

I suppose if you believe that they targeted Spain because of Iraq, then yes, Spain will be pulling out.

The Socialist party, like the majority of people in Spain, opposed the war all along. So if Spain was to withdraw from Iraq, I think it's possible that they would have done so anyway once the Socialists were elected, regardless of whether the attacks were due to involvement in Iraq or not.

Just my opinion.

 

[Dreadsox]

I think you miss my point...and I do not want to derail this thread. I do not believe they targeted over Iraq if it was Al-Qaeda. I do believe they are smart enough to use the war opposition to use bombing to influence this election with a well placed blombing. Time will tell.

 

[STING2]

It does appear that the attack may have been by Al Quada now, although still not confirmed. The Election of the Socialist government means the withdrawal of the 1,300 Spanish soldiers from Iraq. It is the election of a government that sees "appeasement" as the best way to combat terrorism. Whether or not Al Quada is responsible for the bombings, this election result is a victory for Al Quada and Saddam Loyalist in Iraq. It also means Al Quada with 15 bombs has knocked out a government that was a big ally of the United States. It is unfortunate that 42% of Spanish voters voted this way in my opinion. This will only encourage similar attacks.

 

[verte76]

What a week for Spain. They had an 80% voter turnout in that election. They decided to go with the opposition. Things will be different. My hat is off to the people of Spain for showing the terrorists and the world that terrorism isn't going to stop democracy.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Sting,
I don't think it's fair to describe a government which opposed the war on Iraq as supporting the "appeasment" of terrorists. Many people who opposed the war did so because they did not believe there was any connection between Saddam Hussein's regime and al-Qaeda, and therefore invading Iraq was not the best way of fighting al-Qaeda. They didn't believe in "appeasing" al-Qaeda, they believed that there was no reason to go into Iraq and cause the devastation which we have seen there when there was no proof that it would do anything to aid the fight against terrorism.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Dread,
I know you don't want to de-rail this thread (maybe we can start a new one if people are interested in discussing this?) but I just wanted to ask you: to what extent do you think al-Qaeda are interested in influencing the outcome of domestic elections in the West?

 

[STING2]

Sting,
I don't think it's fair to describe a government which opposed the war on Iraq as supporting the "appeasment" of terrorists. Many people who opposed the war did so because they did not believe there was any connection between Saddam Hussein's regime and al-Qaeda, and therefore invading Iraq was not the best way of fighting al-Qaeda. They didn't believe in "appeasing" al-Qaeda, they believed that there was no reason to go into Iraq and cause the devastation which we have seen there when there was no proof that it would do anything to aid the fight against terrorism.

I think it is fair and accurate to describe the vote for this Socialist government as an attempt to appease terrorist. The Perception by many people in Spain is that if they were not involved in the removal and disarmament of Saddam, the terrorist attack would not of happened. It was a surprise that the PP was defeated and no doubt, the terrorist actions produced this outcome.

The security problems presented by Saddam's refusal to Verifiably disarm of all WMD were the chief reasons why members of the international community finally used military force to enforce UN resolutions after having tried other means to bring about enforcement for 12 YEARS without success.

Saddam indeed had connections to some types of terrorism although it is has yet to be confirmed that there were any strong links with Al Quada. But this is not relevant to the security concerns of the UN that involved Saddam's failure to Verifiably disarm of all WMD following his invasion of Kuwait and then defeat in the 1991 Gulf War. Saddam never complied with any of the 17 UN resolutions passed against him under Chapter VII rules of the UN allowing for the use of military force as a means of enforcement.

 

[Rono]

Did Saddam run as president candidate in Spain ?


Anyway,..just on the radio. The new President of Spain just decided to pull back the troops out off Iraq. Zapatero said, i do not bow to the terror but we were always against the Iraq war.

So Iraq people, they will leave you alone after they made your country a paradise for terrorists.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

I think it is fair and accurate to describe the vote for this Socialist government as an attempt to appease terrorist.

That's not what you said in your original post though: you said that the Socialist party supported appeasment, not that people voted for them in order to appease terrorists. They're two separate allegations.

I have no intention of derailing this thread with yet another debate about UN resolutions, but as you're well aware, I think it's ridiculous to claim the UN backed this war when you consider that the pro-war countries refused to even have a vote on the subject because they knew they would be defeated. There is so much more I want to say on that subject, but this is a thread about Madrid and the Spanish elections, so I'm not going to say it.

 

[Popmartijn]

I think it is fair and accurate to describe the vote for this Socialist government as an attempt to appease terrorist.

So by reversing this analogy this would mean that a vote for Bush in the November elections is an attempt at war-mongering and murder.

Great way to describe election outcomes...

Marty

 

[DrTeeth]

It was a surprise that the PP was defeated and no doubt, the terrorist actions produced this outcome.

The PP itself is partially to blame for the outcome of this election. Many people think the PP kept on claiming it was ETA to further their election campaign. They simply don't trust the PP anymore.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

I agree with DrTeeth. Lots of people in Spain are furious at how the PP attempted to cover up evidence that al-Qaeda were behind the attacks, knowing that it could influence the outcome of the election. To play politics with something like this is unforgivable and many people voted against them because of this.

 

[verte76]

I agree with Dr. Teeth and Fizz. People were angered at the PP's handling of the bombing and thought they were playing politics. A demonstration against the government over this was held Saturday, attracting thousands of people. I think the last damn thing the Spanish voters intended to do was to appease terrorists.

 

[dazzledbylight]

Fizz- agree with your> opposing the war on Iraq- does not always = apppeasing terrorists. Contrary to what Team Bush, Limbaugh & Ann Coultair sez.

near noon {us east coast time} I heard on our Public Radio station a comment that sais, sometimes Al Queda will use someone else's terror attack to their advtange. So it seems, I guess, the Madrid attack is still up in the air, as to who perpetrated it.

I didn't even watch the TV News footage. The photos & articles in Sat & Sun's papers made me cry as it was.