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Old 04-20-2004, 09:08 PM   #31
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It is how I feel.....and I am believe it or not very calm. I have been very calm during this or any emails or PMs that I have sent.

But, you know what....I now see the humor in his article and the fact that what he reported was not true.


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What is up with the EMAIL comment anyway? We can email posts?
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Old 04-20-2004, 09:50 PM   #32
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"Faced with intransigent popular resistance that recalls the heroic Vietcong defense of Hue in 1968, the Marines have again unleashed indiscriminate terror."

The "Heroic" Vietcong defense of Hue?

Did Mike go to North Vietnam with Jane Fonda?

Does Mike Davis have any books on Hitler's "heroic " defense of Nazi Germany?

"And as I said before, littering your response with insults doesn't add to the credibility of your argument."

If I had just a dime for every insult hurled at George W. Bush in here, I'd be a rich man.
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Old 04-20-2004, 10:01 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2

If I had just a dime for every insult hurled at George W. Bush in here, I'd be a rich man.
Actually, we could split it and still be rich!
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Old 04-20-2004, 11:11 PM   #34
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Yes, but could you be richer if you got a dime every time he abused the English language?

Let's be the best capitalists we can be!
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Old 04-21-2004, 12:54 AM   #35
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Maybe Davis should stick to writing children's books. I wonder which outlet publishes stuff like Davis' attempt at journalism?
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Old 04-21-2004, 02:01 PM   #36
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I posted this article as an extreme example. However, they have qoutes from soldiers in Time & Newsweek stating similar things. Did you happen to see the tape of the Iraqi shot, crawling away and later shot several more times at close range.

I'm sure this soldier is an anomoly but does happen. Hatred for the enemy eventually including civilians is not new and was well documented in Nam.
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Old 04-21-2004, 04:13 PM   #37
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I am sorry, but Mike Davis' article is what you posted, and very clearly, he is NOT UNBIASED nor has he demonstrated any sort of journalistic integrity by taking the soldiers words and twisting them. Never mind attributing quotes to him that were NOT TRUE.

yep, I am sure every soldier hates the civilians

Funny, the people I have spoken with that have returned home had many good things to say about the average Iraqi on the street. Its a shame that some owuld prefer to paint them as animals.
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Old 04-22-2004, 08:46 AM   #38
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I was just browsing around about the Jenin massacre to get some before and after figures so that we can have some evidence in peoples arguments.

Initial Reports: PA sources say just over one thousand killed by IDF with mass graves etc. Various human rights group back up these claims (use lower figures around 500) and the press go mad about this wanton destruction.

After objective analysis: UN concludes that 54 palestinians had died half of whom were millitants, Final figure of 56 was accepted by the PA and Israel settled on 46. This figure was also in light of facts regarding palestinian actions that setup a real urban combat situation designed to maximise civilian casualties e.g. booby trapping houses, hiding behind civilians using them as human shields etc.

As you can see we must never become blinded to the facts when confronted with speculation by those with a major bias. I have not seen a single millitary expert call actions within Falluja a war crime however you can turn your TV on and see lawyers and volunteers talk about how the marines were on a vicious sniper campaign against women and children. Then they will cite doctors at Falluja hospital saying that the US is killing vast ammounts of women and children with indiscriminate force. Nobody questions the opinions of these people (the doctors) who are in the unenviable position of operating in a town overrun with insurgents, its like believing a US pilot's forced confession in a vietcong propaganda campaign. They also take speculation as fact.

When history judges the events in Falluja we can say two things.
1) It showed the terrorists (insurgents if I must) that they cant mess the the US and expect to hide behind civilians to protect themselves.
2) They now understand that if you "mess with the best you die like the rest" and will hopefully surrender their arms, if they don't then they will be disarmed with force and won't be able to threaten anybody ever again.
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Old 04-25-2004, 03:51 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I


When history judges the events in Falluja we can say two things.
1) It showed the terrorists (insurgents if I must) that they cant mess the the US and expect to hide behind civilians to protect themselves.
2) They now understand that if you "mess with the best you die like the rest" and will hopefully surrender their arms, if they don't then they will be disarmed with force and won't be able to threaten anybody ever again.
Collective punishment ?
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:16 AM   #40
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BBC and Tagesschau say that the US troops pull out of Falluja.
I hope it will help to deescalate the situation.

Some others might think that the US looks weak, but i think it's smart to put 1,100 Iraqi soldiers led by a former general from the Saddam Hussein era between the US army and the iraqi people so less US soldiers will die and therefore less attention in the Western media.
I don't know the repuation of that general, but i hope he was respected by the iraqi civilians.

Quote:
US forces to pull out of Falluja

US marines are to withdraw from positions they have held in the flashpoint Iraqi city of Falluja, an American military commander has said.

...

Doctors in Falluja say some 600 people have been killed since the siege began three weeks ago.

...

April has seen more than 120 US troops killed in Iraq - by far the highest casualty rate since the toppling of Saddam Hussein a year ago.

...

In the US, a new opinion poll suggests dwindling support among Americans for the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Just 47% of 1,042 Americans questioned believed invading Iraq was the right thing to do, the lowest support recorded in the polls since the war began.
Today another 8 US soldiers were killed and 8 wounded in Baghdad when a carbomb exploded close to their convoy

According to a AP reporter US-Soldiers shot on a small bus and killed a whole Family (7 persons) which tried to get out of the town.

In Germa (close to F.) 2 Iraqis were killed during razzias.

In Falluja you can now find posters "$15 000 000 bounty" for the heads of Donald Rumsfeld (Secretary of Defence), Lieutenant-General Ricardo Sanchez (US Commander in Iraq) and Mark Kimmit (who's that?).

Al-Asad (President of Syria) said:
"The armed operations against the American occupying forces in Iraq constitute a legitimate resistance because it represents the majority of the Iraqi people"
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Old 04-29-2004, 11:25 AM   #41
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The more Iraqi's take over their own security, the better the situation will become.
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Old 04-29-2004, 11:30 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
Some others might think that the US looks weak, but i think it's smart to put 1,100 Iraqi soldiers led by a former general from the Saddam Hussein era between the US army and the iraqi people so less US soldiers will die and therefore less attention in the Western media.
I don't know the repuation of that general, but i hope he was respected by the iraqi civilians.
This cuts both ways. Iraqi's being responsible for their own security is good. Giving the Syrian backed (?) insurgents time to regroup and rearm is bad.
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Old 05-14-2004, 05:54 PM   #43
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Critical news from Najaf

US troops say they have been fired upon from the cemetery

Quote:
(slightly edited) Now US tanks prowling along a path of Najaf's hallowed cemetery
....
Any accidental damage to the holy shrines will invite comparisons to what Saddam Hussein did when he bombed the Imam Ali Shrine to suppress the Shia uprising in 1991

....

Known as the Valley of Peace, it is said to be one of the largest, ..., graveyards on the planet.
Some of those buried in Najaf most recently were victims of Saddam's secret executions, recovered by their families from anonymous mass graves to be moved, ... to the ground which is said to border Paradise.
from http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3716143.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3715735.stm

and.. interesting side note:
Quote:
American tanks blocked off roads between Najaf and the nearby holy city of Kufa, in an apparent attempt to prevent Mr Sadr from reaching Kufa for his habitual Friday prayers.

However, Mr Sadr appeared in Kufa to deliver his sermon in which he denounced coalition leaders and condemned Iraqis working for the occupying forces.

In Baghdad's mainly Shia slum of Sadr City, representatives of Mr Sadr urged young men to go to Najaf and join the fight and there were similar militant calls in Iraq's second city, Basra.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3713453.stm

Somehow impressive that he can still move and talk
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Old 05-27-2004, 12:27 PM   #44
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3752393.stm

Quote:
Offensive operations will be halted to allow a truce offer by Mr Sadr to take effect, spokesman Dan Senor said.

After talks with Shia leaders, Mr Sadr offered to withdraw his men if the US also pulled back and shelved a murder inquiry against him.
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Old 05-27-2004, 04:23 PM   #45
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This is an excellent strategy for Iraq. The first line slams the admin. but his recommendations are realistic and good. - Thoughts?

http://www.csis.org/hill/ts040519acordesman.pdf
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