MANDATORY health insurance, part 2 - Page 59 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-18-2010, 01:18 PM   #871
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 06:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
Excellent article, INDY. It might surprise you to find I do agree with him almost 100%. The first paragraph captures exactly how I feel about the current health care reform law. A lot of my objections in these threads have been more to the partisan hyperbole, not to legitimate concerns.

I too feel that the third-party system is the primary cause of the escalating cost of health care. I like the idea of health care savings plans (and I seem to recall you're a fan of them too). I wonder if we'll be able to make the move that the Jim Marshall advocates though, whether people will be willing to do it. I think many Americans who have health insurance have gotten used to the "overcare" approach and would be nervous about giving it up.

I also agree with Irvine that if we're going to reduce the deficit, we really have to look at the areas that are costing the most--defense, social security, medicare and make some hard choices there.

What I've always been interested in is a balanced and thoughtful approach to the issues, which is a lot drier than the screaming "Obamacare!" and "socialism" and "Tea Baggers!" but would be far more productive.

What parts of the article did you disagree with, and what parts did you like?
I would agree with benji that the Congressman "low-balls" the effect the threat of lawsuits has on the cost of care. I can tell you that in a hospital the standard of care is not only the professional standard but also, unfortunately, what will be paid for and what we need in case of lawsuit. And you can be assured that the cost of malpractice insurance and lawsuit settlements is there on your bill, you just can't see it. Many specialties have been hit hard by frivolous suits as well, (obstetricians, vaccine makers, hospital supplies) which hurts competition, causes shortages and increases prices.

The congressman also fails to mention that part of the reason we pay more is we get more. The newest procedures, drugs and equipment is found here. We get the cutting edge stuff but we pay for it. Also, our drugs cost more because other countries have price controls forcing companies to make the bulk of their profits here. Fair? No.
The rest of the world benefits from our system (eventually getting the new stuff with little of the R&D costs and at below market prices) and as usual they just don't realize how much. When we implement cost controls where are tomorrow's miracle drugs going to come from?

Here's what I really like:
Quote:
Most Americans, however, should participate in a sufficiently robust private market for health-care services, a market that settles on a price and also sets the expected standard of care. Today, there is no such market for health care
Today, only 10 - 15% of health care cost is paid for out of pocket where the patient has some idea of the cost, the rest by third-party payers. Until we change the incentives in the system, get that ratio reversed and separate "health care" from "health coverage" we will continue down the same road.

Glad you liked the article.
__________________

__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 07-18-2010, 04:11 PM   #872
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,687
Local Time: 06:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benji2112 View Post
what disease is this that they can't treat in the USA ?
I cannot remember what it's called. But it's something her and her siblings have, it skips every other generation. She has it the worse though, and she's younger than I am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benji2112 View Post

Want to see how to do what everyone wants as far as medicine, Study the Cleveland Clinic Foundation. Best place in the world, and ANYONE and everyone gets treated, regardless of ability to pay.

It is the model of how this should work. Even Obama said that. Yet, he goes in a different direction

Study it,it is a fantastic model of how to deliever healthcare, and they did it, complete change in less than 5 years .
I've askd you before if you could post anything about the business model, I can find a lot about the clinic, but can't find much on the business model per se.
__________________

__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 07-19-2010, 11:57 AM   #873
Refugee
 
A stor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: U.S.A. East Coast
Posts: 2,464
Local Time: 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
In theory, I agree with this. Practically, I'm not so sure. Look, I grew up with out health insurance. We just didn't go to the doctor. I never had annual checkups, never went to the dentist even once as a child. We relied on God to care for us, and He did. My mom who is 63 years old, self-employed, and currently has a lump in her breast is uninsured. I think she should get it looked at, she doesn't want to because she can't afford it. I actually went online to find out what it would cost her to get a mammogram (thinking maybe my wife and I could pick up the tab)--$500. A biopsy will run between $1000 and $5000. She doesn't have that kind of money just lying around and neither do I. She says she's had "scares" before and it always turned out to be nothing, and she doesn't have the money any way, so it sounds like she's just going to ignore it and hope it goes away. I'll tell you, INDY, it sucks.

Here's the thing--if you can't afford health costs and you don't have insurance, you simply go without. . .until you can't afford to anymore. At which point the costs are much higher than they would have been. I agree that the concept of insuring "basic maintanence" is not effective, but from experience I can tell you that simply taking away the insurance for those things isn't a realistic solution either.





But isn't the argument that you don't WANT the government using your tax money to cover these poor. If it were up to you, somone like my sister--who is on Medicaid-- is in the hospital tonight 37 weeks pregnant and her platlet count dropping daily for reasons the doctors can't figure out (She's at 40,000 right now), should be out on the streets not stealing your money?

Give me a fucking break.. . .

sorry, everybody. This is just all very real and personal to me right now. It's not just talking heads on TV anymore.
I am very sorry to hear this. Are there any places which will provide free screenings for your mom? Or hospital clinics who will set up an affordable payment plan. She really needs to have that lump evaluated. 80% of the time it is not cancer. But, she shouldn't take that risk and she may be eligible for Medical Assistance. A social worker/financial personnel at a hospital would be able to help with that. If you are in the U.S. I think all states may have a research/teaching hospital who treat patients without insurance. If you live in Maryland. JH Hospital will not deny patients. Regardless of ability to pay and will work something out with your mom. Depending on her income. She may be entitled to more benefits, than she is receiving right now. Perhaps, some help with food and rent.

I understand that you have a lot on your plate right now. I would be feeling exactly the same way. I want your your mom and sister to have the best care.
__________________
A stor is offline  
Old 07-19-2010, 02:15 PM   #874
Acrobat
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 459
Local Time: 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A stor View Post
I am very sorry to hear this. Are there any places which will provide free screenings for your mom? Or hospital clinics who will set up an affordable payment plan. She really needs to have that lump evaluated. 80% of the time it is not cancer. But, she shouldn't take that risk and she may be eligible for Medical Assistance. A social worker/financial personnel at a hospital would be able to help with that. If you are in the U.S. I think all states may have a research/teaching hospital who treat patients without insurance. If you live in Maryland. JH Hospital will not deny patients. Regardless of ability to pay and will work something out with your mom. Depending on her income. She may be entitled to more benefits, than she is receiving right now. Perhaps, some help with food and rent.

I understand that you have a lot on your plate right now. I would be feeling exactly the same way. I want your your mom and sister to have the best care.

You Mom was set, all you had to do is pick up the phone and call Kommen. They were waiting for you . You or her never called, and you said it wasn't about money. They wouldn't have charged her anyway.

Wonder who lost out on that block of time for their mamogram? Something to think about. They had a long list to get in.
__________________
Benji2112 is offline  
Old 07-19-2010, 02:16 PM   #875
Acrobat
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 459
Local Time: 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
I cannot remember what it's called. But it's something her and her siblings have, it skips every other generation. She has it the worse though, and she's younger than I am.



I've askd you before if you could post anything about the business model, I can find a lot about the clinic, but can't find much on the business model per se.
I asked for a scanned copy. I will have it shortly.
__________________
Benji2112 is offline  
Old 07-19-2010, 02:20 PM   #876
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,294
Local Time: 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benji2112 View Post
You Mom was set, all you had to do is pick up the phone and call Kommen. They were waiting for you . You or her never called, and you said it wasn't about money. They wouldn't have charged her anyway.
Is there a particular reason why you always choose to communicate in this abrasive manner?

And it's Komen. And contrary to your "they're waiting for you" as if they have little better to do with their time, you have to qualify based on an income threshold which is rather low and disqualifies many lower middle class women.

But far be it from me to suggest that you inform yourself prior to choosing to be rude.
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 07-19-2010, 02:22 PM   #877
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,687
Local Time: 06:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benji2112 View Post
You Mom was set, all you had to do is pick up the phone and call Kommen. They were waiting for you . You or her never called, and you said it wasn't about money. They wouldn't have charged her anyway.

Wonder who lost out on that block of time for their mamogram? Something to think about. They had a long list to get in.
Is this your bedside manner?

I mean seriously...
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 07-19-2010, 04:36 PM   #878
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 07:45 AM
Just an update.

I'm now here in Florida staying with my mom for the week. I asked her about getting the lump checked, she says shes' not going to. But I'm going to look into Komen and see if I can persuade her. Good news though--my sister gave birth today via C-section. She and baby are fine. Her lump turned out to be nothing. So we're very happy about that. My wife and I are glad that she had the baby while we're here on vacation so we can see him. I can now add "Uncle" to my list of titles! We'll head back over to the hospital to see her and the baby in a little bit.

In defense of Benji, he was very helpful and concerned via PM. I don't know whether anything will come from Komen but I appreciated his interest and concern. I'm not sure why he's been so harsh here in this thread, but I'm not taking it personally--perhaps he felt I was unappreciative of his efforts earlier? At any rate, I just wanted to clarify that.

Edit: Wait, Benji, did you actually call someone at the center and set it up for my mom to be screened? I read your post a second time just now and it almost seems like that's what you were implying. I didn't get that from your PM otherwise I would have had her call right away. I thought you were just giving me the name of an organization I could look up and I fully intended to do that. If actual arrangements had been made I would have followed through immediately.
__________________
maycocksean is offline  
Old 07-19-2010, 05:02 PM   #879
Refugee
 
A stor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: U.S.A. East Coast
Posts: 2,464
Local Time: 12:45 PM
Congrats Uncle!

I am very happy to here that everything went well for your sister.

I am going to post something. I would like your mom to read. I am ten years younger than she is. So, I'm no wet behind the ears, kid.

Dear friend,

I had a breast lump at the age of thirty. I promptly saw a DR. The lump was suspicious because they were unable to "move it." I had my first mamogram and Ultra-sound. Again the lump seemed suspicious because they couldn't get a clear picture. At age thirty, women usually have very dense breast tissue. So, imaging can be more difficult. I was then sent to be examined by a surgeon. He examined me and determined that the lump was found to be nothing more than a benign cyst. But, my point is. If I didn't see the DR. and it would have been breast cancer. I would not be alive nor typing this message. I would not be a grand mom. Please, listen to your family. They love you. And most of all. Your brand new grand child wants you around.

Yours truly,

From another woman who wants to hear all of those grand mom stories. You will be able to share.
__________________
A stor is offline  
Old 07-19-2010, 05:16 PM   #880
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A stor View Post
Congrats Uncle!

I am very happy to here that everything went well for your sister.

I am going to post something. I would like your mom to read. I am ten years younger than she is. So, I'm no wet behind the ears, kid.

Dear friend,

I had a breast lump at the age of thirty. I promptly saw a DR. The lump was suspicious because they were unable to "move it." I had my first mamogram and Ultra-sound. Again the lump seemed suspicious because they couldn't get a clear picture. At age thirty, women usually have very dense breast tissue. So, imaging can be more difficult. I was then sent to be examined by a surgeon. He examined me and determined that the lump was found to be nothing more than a benign cyst. But, my point is. If I didn't see the DR. and it would have been breast cancer. I would not be alive nor typing this message. I would not be a grand mom. Please, listen to your family. They love you. And most of all. Your brand new grand child wants you around.

Yours truly,

From another woman who wants to hear all of those grand mom stories. You will be able to share.
Thanks A Stor. My mom and I are talking about this right now.
__________________
maycocksean is offline  
Old 07-19-2010, 05:18 PM   #881
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
I would agree with benji that the Congressman "low-balls" the effect the threat of lawsuits has on the cost of care. I can tell you that in a hospital the standard of care is not only the professional standard but also, unfortunately, what will be paid for and what we need in case of lawsuit. And you can be assured that the cost of malpractice insurance and lawsuit settlements is there on your bill, you just can't see it. Many specialties have been hit hard by frivolous suits as well, (obstetricians, vaccine makers, hospital supplies) which hurts competition, causes shortages and increases prices.

The congressman also fails to mention that part of the reason we pay more is we get more. The newest procedures, drugs and equipment is found here. We get the cutting edge stuff but we pay for it. Also, our drugs cost more because other countries have price controls forcing companies to make the bulk of their profits here. Fair? No.
The rest of the world benefits from our system (eventually getting the new stuff with little of the R&D costs and at below market prices) and as usual they just don't realize how much. When we implement cost controls where are tomorrow's miracle drugs going to come from?

Here's what I really like:

Today, only 10 - 15% of health care cost is paid for out of pocket where the patient has some idea of the cost, the rest by third-party payers. Until we change the incentives in the system, get that ratio reversed and separate "health care" from "health coverage" we will continue down the same road.

Glad you liked the article.
It'd be great to have health savings accounts that could be set up outside of an employer as well.

I noticed the article didn't say anything about how people will lose their current coverage under the current law though. Do you have anything on that?
__________________
maycocksean is offline  
Old 07-19-2010, 06:26 PM   #882
Acrobat
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 459
Local Time: 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
Is there a particular reason why you always choose to communicate in this abrasive manner?

And it's Komen. And contrary to your "they're waiting for you" as if they have little better to do with their time, you have to qualify based on an income threshold which is rather low and disqualifies many lower middle class women.

But far be it from me to suggest that you inform yourself prior to choosing to be rude.

Maybe understand what I was saying to someone before choosing to be rude. The person I wrote to knows exactly what I am talking about, and the help was a phone call away. They were waiting on the call by request of a benefactor. People were trying to help . So please, you are right, they have better things to do with their time.
__________________
Benji2112 is offline  
Old 07-19-2010, 06:40 PM   #883
Refugee
 
A stor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: U.S.A. East Coast
Posts: 2,464
Local Time: 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
It'd be great to have health savings accounts that could be set up outside of an employer as well.

I noticed the article didn't say anything about how people will lose their current coverage under the current law though. Do you have anything on that?
You are welcome

This is what concerns me. I finally have great health insurance thru work and don't want to lose it. I'm not against under insured folks. I have been there. I know exactly what it's like. Plus, I don't want to see anyone go without medical services. Regardless of their ability to pay.

It's just that what ever is being passed is very confusing to me.
__________________
A stor is offline  
Old 07-19-2010, 06:45 PM   #884
Acrobat
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 459
Local Time: 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Is this your bedside manner?

I mean seriously...
When people are frozen by something that scares them, which is usually something not so pleasant, sometimes it saves lives.

There was a time not long ago men could be bleeding out their rear, and would ignore it for years. If they lived that long . Lance Armstrong Rode in the 96 Atlanta games with a
buddy" the size of a grapefruit, and throwing up blood until he was forced to go to the Dr in Oct. In 2 months, he wouldn't have been here any more.

Yet, if someones car makes a noise , they rush to the mechanic.

So while I explained it could easily be a fatty tissue "lump" time is of the essence. Sooner is better. Especially when symptoms have been present for some time. Lymph nodes are like super highways. Cancer cells divide quickly. People tend to put things off, especially in regards to health.

Then there is the issue of time for the provider. Free mamograms are in high demand. Usually there is a big thank you at the happy ending. What matters is getting it checked... yesterday.
__________________
Benji2112 is offline  
Old 07-19-2010, 06:51 PM   #885
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,687
Local Time: 06:45 AM
I don't care, doing so in a public forum was bad form.
__________________

__________________
BVS is online now  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Dog Lovers.... Part 3 U2Fanatic4ever Lemonade Stand 1019 05-19-2012 04:35 AM
Hell-th Insurance WARNING: LONG POST! BluRmGrl Zoo Confessionals 7 10-26-2006 10:04 PM
On (not) having health insurance wolfeden Zoo Confessionals 14 03-24-2004 12:15 PM
White House seeks control on health, safety Scarletwine Free Your Mind Archive 1 01-13-2004 05:54 PM
Bono today at the conference in Africa U2Kitten Everything You Know Is Wrong Archive 9 01-15-2002 10:29 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com