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Old 06-29-2010, 05:05 PM   #676
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So far no one has been able to explain to me why this is going to happen, when companies could cut their employees loose from healthcare and not have to even a pay fine right now.

Is it that they'll be able to do so "guilt free" because they know the employees will have to purchase their own insurance on the "exchange"?
Some of us support plans that would eventually sever health care from employment allowing individuals to buy their own insurance tailored to their needs and be completely portable.
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Old 06-29-2010, 05:40 PM   #677
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Some of us support plans that would eventually sever health care from employment allowing individuals to buy their own insurance tailored to their needs and be completely portable.
And you know what the failure of that idea is?

Many wouldn't buy causing strain, and then many couldn't afford.

And those that could would be paying WAY TOO MUCH, for it would be just like it is now where insurance companies create the cost of healthcare.
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Old 06-29-2010, 05:43 PM   #678
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The numbers used and quoted by the left politicians, were produced and sourced during the healthcare debate by the Democrats, Harry Reid, etc were calculated by a group called HCAN. aka Health Care for America now . You can look up in the records of both house and senate as to where the 400 % profit numbers came from
I deal with insurance companies everyday, I work in healthcare. I know exactly what kind of profits they make, and you are way off my friend.
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Old 06-29-2010, 05:45 PM   #679
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Some of us support plans that would eventually sever health care from employment allowing individuals to buy their own insurance tailored to their needs and be completely portable.


as a freelancer, this is what i have now.

i hate it. i'm very lucky to be a rich, uppity homosexual without kids and can afford it.
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Old 06-29-2010, 05:57 PM   #680
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as a freelancer, this is what i have now.

i hate it. i'm very lucky to be a rich, uppity homosexual without kids and can afford it.

My part-time aide, whose (straight) husband owns his own business, pays more than 7000 dollars a year for private, non-employer based insurance. And she was going to pay 1/3 more until Blue Sign of the Devil was stopped cold in its tracks by the fascist/socialist CA Dept. of Insurance.

It's portable! It's for-profit! It only covers the big ticket items! It's better than whatever that damn Kenyan devised!
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:45 PM   #681
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wait for it ... something about how a single payer option competition across state lines will drive down prices ...

my premiums go up 33% a year.
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Old 06-29-2010, 07:49 PM   #682
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Some of us support plans that would eventually sever health care from employment allowing individuals to buy their own insurance tailored to their needs and be completely portable.
Is this option not currently available?

Another question, would it be accurate to say that one of the objections you have to "Obamacare" is the mandate that everyone has to have health insurance? (We know the insurance companies love this part of the law).
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:40 PM   #683
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as a freelancer, this is what i have now.

i hate it. i'm very lucky to be a rich, uppity homosexual without kids and can afford it.
You wouldn't hate it if the tax code treated your insurance the same way it treats insurance purchased by employers. Or if you could shop for insurance across state lines.

But that would take power and control out of Washington DC wouldn't it?
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:50 PM   #684
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Or if you could shop for insurance across state lines.
If I recall rightly, I think the new healthcare bill allows you to do that now. That was a Republican idea, actually, I think.

I remember reading a post somewhere in one of the threads here at one point talking about how the Constitution doesn't guarantee us the right to healthcare. Well, the Constitution, in its original form, didn't allow a LOT of things. That's why we have amendments. Maybe it doesn't need to flat out say, "You have the right to healthcare", but I think we DO have the right to not have to pay an arm and a leg just to go get our teeth taken care of or to go for a simple checkup or be in debt up to our eyeballs because of unforseen medical issues. When an insurance company refuses to cover a BABY because it's "too overweight" or whatever BS reason that one company gave, a baby who has absolutely no control over its eating habits, when children would go uninsured for years because their parents couldn't afford to insure them and had to shell out way too much money to take care of them, that's just wrong and completely screwed up.

Angela
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:53 PM   #685
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Is this option not currently available?

Another question, would it be accurate to say that one of the objections you have to "Obamacare" is the mandate that everyone has to have health insurance? (We know the insurance companies love this part of the law).
I don't think it's constitutional to require the purchase of a good. But what I would do is change the crazy notion that you can just show up for healthcare and expect not to pay for it. If you don't purchase homeowners insurance and your house burns down; good luck waiting for someone to build you a new one for free. Same with auto insurance.

From the day you're no longer covered under your parents insurance (which I think when fully implemented will be 35 years old under Obamacare), You must either show proof of insurance on your income tax returns or sign a waiver allowing hospitals, doctors, NPs, PTs and everyone else that may treat you should you show up at their door with no insurance an opportunity to garnish your wages until such time as your bill is paid.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:53 PM   #686
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Or if you could shop for insurance across state lines.

But that would take power and control out of Washington DC wouldn't it?
NO, actually if you wanted insurance sold across state lines you would have to give DC more power and insurance less.

We've gone over this a hundred times, the fact that you constantly ignore it and keep grasping to that Hannity talking point just shows you don't understand the issue.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:12 PM   #687
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If I recall rightly, I think the new healthcare bill allows you to do that now. That was a Republican idea, actually, I think.

I remember reading a post somewhere in one of the threads here at one point talking about how the Constitution doesn't guarantee us the right to healthcare. Well, the Constitution, in its original form, didn't allow a LOT of things. That's why we have amendments. Maybe it doesn't need to flat out say, "You have the right to healthcare", but I think we DO have the right to not have to pay an arm and a leg just to go get our teeth taken care of or to go for a simple checkup or be in debt up to our eyeballs because of unforseen medical issues. When an insurance company refuses to cover a BABY because it's "too overweight" or whatever BS reason that one company gave, a baby who has absolutely no control over its eating habits, when children would go uninsured for years because their parents couldn't afford to insure them and had to shell out way too much money to take care of them, that's just wrong and completely screwed up.

Angela
Maybe we should amend the Constitution to enumerate the right of every child to have responsible, loving parents. But you can't have that any more than you can the right to healthcare because someone has to provide them for you.

Can you demand the goods or services of another human being without them losing some of their liberty?

The first 4 minutes of this clip are the best 4 minutes I've ever seen on The Glenn Beck Show. And Glenn Beck was sick that day.

YouTube - Health Care Insurance is NOT A RIGHT - Part 1 of 2
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:22 PM   #688
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I don't think it's constitutional to require the purchase of a good. But what I would do is change the crazy notion that you can just show up for healthcare and expect not to pay for it. If you don't purchase homeowners insurance and your house burns down; good luck waiting for someone to build you a new one for free. Same with auto insurance.

From the day you're no longer covered under your parents insurance (which I think when fully implemented will be 35 years old under Obamacare), You must either show proof of insurance on your income tax returns or sign a waiver allowing hospitals, doctors, NPs, PTs and everyone else that may treat you should you show up at their door with no insurance an opportunity to garnish your wages until such time as your bill is paid.
Amen !


Our hospital is going under because of this, as are just about every Major Trauma system in the Country....Beyond bankrupt.. Not to mention small town regional Medical Centers. Privately, We are one of the few who work with people. We often discount, and don't expect them to pay it all off, but we put the idea in their head that it isn't free, nor could it ever be. We actually get more people who pay that way. We write off the rest. It's those small payments that allows us to not go broke, and often makes up the % we can't write off.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:22 PM   #689
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You wouldn't hate it if the tax code treated your insurance the same way it treats insurance purchased by employers. Or if you could shop for insurance across state lines.

But that would take power and control out of Washington DC wouldn't it?


could you be more specific? these sound suspiciously like talking points, and i know you work in health care, so you wouldn't just be repeating what you've heard, would you?

you also seem to think that health care is just breast implants and contact lenses.

don't really have much of a choice to purchase said "goods and services" when your 6-year old gets cancer or if you have ever been rushed to the ER on a stretcher and spent a week in the ICU.



(and i still love the anti-poor resentment -- yes, those are the fuckers who are gaming the system, the poor people who get hit by cars and can't afford insurance and have the nerve to rack up $45,000 in hospital costs -- THOSE are the people who are ruining America! not the insurance companies! not Wall Street! the POORS!)
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:24 PM   #690
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From the day you're no longer covered under your parents insurance (which I think when fully implemented will be 35 years old under Obamacare),
A colleague is eagerly awaiting this socialist/fascist part. Her son is 25 and in college. He suffers from severe seizures if not medicated. Without her insurance, he wouldn't have his neurologists and medication. Of course, he won't be insurable on his own with that kind of pre-existing condition. Fucking Nazi bastard we have for a president, outlawing that denial of coverage.


But I guess this young man shoulda thought ahead before his difficult birth 25 years ago; he should have started a savings account so he could pay for his own damn healthcare. Forget college; he could easily live a box under the freeway.
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