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Old 09-26-2009, 09:45 PM   #46
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Here's where I'm at these days on the health care debate:

I really think we need far more radical change than anything that is going to come out of Washington is going to provide.

The health insurance industry cannot be profitable and do what we want it to do. "Regular" health care needs to be decoupled from insurance altogether and that will never happen in this country.

What we will get is some watered-down, version of something that will mostly just cost us all a lot more.

I don't think that this means we should do nothing. The current situation is untenable. I'm just being in honest in saying I'm doubtful as to how effective any reform we get is going to be.
Sean I agree 100%. I don't want any compromise or gradual change, I simply do not see the point. IMO the current system is unjust and downright stupid. However I don't have high hopes that I will see anything close to what I want any time soon...
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Old 09-27-2009, 01:22 AM   #47
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I believe these were the code words where Irvine was reading the racism between the lines.

come on, Sean. we've learned that racism only exists when people say to us, "yes, i am a racist." otherwise, we're being even worse than racists, which is suspecting that race might play a part in something even when people are telling us that, no, it isn't a part of something. and because they're calling Obama a nazi/socialist/peacenik/elitist/affirmative action baby/too cerebral/thug and every other name under the sun, just remember, that if they tell us that, why, no, i'm not at all taking his race into account, then, by all means, they're not! it's not like this country has a long, sordid past where african-americans were scapegoated for just about everything, nor have we ever constructed racialized "others" upon which class-based fears have been projected.

and, as ever, this murder was an isolated incident, and is not at all tied in to the Beck-inspired hysteria that's been sweeping through some parts of the GOP base ...

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AP source: Census worker hanged with 'fed' on body
By DEVLIN BARRETT and JEFFREY McMURRAY (AP) – 3 days ago
WASHINGTON — A U.S. Census worker found hanged from a tree near a Kentucky cemetery had the word "fed" scrawled on his chest, a law enforcement official said Wednesday, and the FBI is investigating whether he was a victim of anti-government sentiment.

The law enforcement official, who was not authorized to discuss the case and requested anonymity, did not say what type of instrument was used to write the word on the chest of Bill Sparkman, a 51-year-old part-time Census field worker and teacher. He was found Sept. 12 in a remote patch of the Daniel Boone National Forest in rural southeast Kentucky.

The Census has suspended door-to-door interviews in rural Clay County, where the body was found, pending the outcome of the investigation. An autopsy report is pending.

Investigators have said little about the case. FBI spokesman David Beyer said the bureau is assisting state police and declined to confirm or discuss any details about the crime scene. "Our job is to determine if there was foul play involved — and that's part of the investigation — and if there was foul play involved, whether that is related to his employment as a Census worker," said Beyer.

Sparkman's mother, Henrie Sparkman of Inverness, Fla., told The Associated Press her son was an Eagle scout who moved to the area to be a local director for the Boy Scouts of America. She said he later became a substitute teacher in Laurel County and supplemented that income as a Census worker.
She said investigators have given her few details about her son's death — they told her the body was decomposed — and haven't yet released his body for burial. "I was told it would be better for him to be cremated," she said.

Henrie Sparkman said her son's death is a mystery to her. "I have my own ideas, but I can't say them out loud. Not at this point," she said. "Right now, what I'm doing, I'm just waiting on the FBI to come to some conclusion."

Lucindia Scurry-Johnson, assistant director of the Census Bureau's southern office in Charlotte, N.C., said law enforcement officers have told the agency the matter is "an apparent homicide" but nothing else.

Census employees were told Sparkman's truck was found nearby, and a computer he was using for work was found inside it, she said. He worked part-time for the Census, usually conducting interviews once or twice a month.

Sparkman has worked for the Census since 2003, spanning five counties in the surrounding area. Much of his recent work had been in Clay County, officials said.

Door-to-door operations have been suspended in Clay County pending a resolution of the investigation, Scurry-Johnson said.

The Census Bureau has yet to begin door-to-door canvassing for the 2010 head count, but it has thousands of field workers doing smaller surveys on various demographic topics on behalf of federal agencies. Next year, the Census Bureau will dispatch up to 1.2 million temporary employees to locate hard-to-find residents.

"We are deeply saddened by the loss of our co-worker," Commerce Secretary Gary Locke said in a statement. "Our thoughts and prayers are with William Sparkman's son, other family and friends."
Locke called him "a shining example of the hardworking men and women employed by the Census Bureau."

Appalachia scholar Roy Silver, a New York City native now living in Harlan County, Ky., said he doesn't sense an outpouring of anti-government sentiment in the region as has been exhibited in town hall meetings in other parts of the country.

"I don't think distrust of government is any more or less here than anywhere else in the country," said Silver, a sociology professor at Southeast Community College.

The most deadly attack on federal workers came in 1995 when the federal building in Oklahoma City was devastated by a truck bomb, killing 168 and injuring more than 680. Timothy McVeigh, who was executed for the bombing, carried literature by modern, ultra-right-wing anti-government authors.
A private group called PEER, Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, tracks violence against employees who enforce environmental regulations, but the group's executive director, Jeff Ruch, said it's hard to know about all of the cases because some agencies don't share data on instances of violence against employees.

From 1996 to 2006, according to the group's most recent data, violent incidents against federal Bureau of Land Management and Forest Service workers soared from 55 to 290.

Ruch said that after the 1995 bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City, "we kept getting reports from employees that attacks and intimidation against federal employees had not diminished, and that's why we've been tracking them."

"Even as illustrated in town hall meetings today, there is a distinct hostility in a large segment of the population toward people who work for their government," Ruch said.

McMurray reported from Lexington, Ky. Associated Press writers Roger Alford in Frankfort, Ky., and Hope Yen in Washington contributed to this report.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:08 AM   #48
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Monday, September 28, 2009 Email to a Friend ShareThis
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Just 41% of voters nationwide now favor the health care reform proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. That’s down two points from a week ago and the lowest level of support yet measured.
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 56% are opposed to the plan.
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Old 09-28-2009, 03:47 PM   #49
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come on, Sean. we've learned that racism only exists when people say to us, "yes, i am a racist." otherwise, we're being even worse than racists, which is suspecting that race might play a part in something even when people are telling us that, no, it isn't a part of something. and because they're calling Obama a nazi/socialist/peacenik/elitist/affirmative action baby/too cerebral/thug and every other name under the sun, just remember, that if they tell us that, why, no, i'm not at all taking his race into account, then, by all means, they're not! it's not like this country has a long, sordid past where african-americans were scapegoated for just about everything, nor have we ever constructed racialized "others" upon which class-based fears have been projected.
What if say Michael Steele was president? Then what?
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Old 09-28-2009, 03:57 PM   #50
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What if say Michael Steele was president? Then what?
What do you think? Who would all those racist at the tea parties vote for if it was Steele vs Obama? Probably stay home, don't you think?

Would we see all the racist "joke" emails if it was Steele?

"painting the white house"
"planting watermelon"
"Obama's face will be currency, food stamps"(that one actually made it to interference)
Etc, etc, etc...

What do you honestly think?
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:06 PM   #51
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What do you think? Who would all those racist at the tea parties vote for if it was Steele vs Obama? Probably stay home, don't you think?

Would we see all the racist "joke" emails if it was Steele?

"painting the white house"
"planting watermelon"
"Obama's face will be currency, food stamps"(that one actually made it to interference)
Etc, etc, etc...

What do you honestly think?
Why not, if its about race and not policies?
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:28 PM   #52
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Why not, if its about race and not policies?


"Why not" to what? I asked you several different questions.

I think you missed my point. Steele more than likely would not have the votes and the tea parties wouldn't exist.
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:46 PM   #53
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"Why not" to what? I asked you several different questions.

I think you missed my point. Steele more than likely would not have the votes and the tea parties wouldn't exist.
I said "why not," in terms of would there be less racist "joke" emails. To your other question, the truly racist voters obviously wouldn't have voted, or would have gone 3rd party. But I think its ridiculous to say all the tea parties are a bunch of racists. While I I think displaying a picture of him with a hitler moustache or making him look like stalin, or what have you is really pretty much stupid, I still fail to see how that makes you a RACIST...
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Old 09-28-2009, 05:20 PM   #54
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I said "why not," in terms of would there be less racist "joke" emails. To your other question, the truly racist voters obviously wouldn't have voted, or would have gone 3rd party.
To which I'm saying if it was Nov 08 Republicans would have lost again, but by a larger margin.

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But I think its ridiculous to say all the tea parties are a bunch of racists.
Once again, drop the all or nothing mentality. No one is saying ALL. But you have to ask yourself, why haven't you, 2861, Rush, Hannity, Beck truly stepped up called these people out, in fact why haven't you called Rush or Beck out on their racism? Why? Because you know you wouldn't have the numbers, and you're desperate. And also you still don't quite see it, which isn't blatant racism, but it's still racism. Why do you allow Rush to commision 'The Magic Negro' song and laugh while he plays it? Why did NO ONE on his side call him out on that shit? I thought you were all "christians"?

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While I I think displaying a picture of him with a hitler moustache or making him look like stalin, or what have you is really pretty much stupid, I still fail to see how that makes you a RACIST...
Here's a little historical context:

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Old 09-28-2009, 05:46 PM   #55
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so that automatically makes these people racist? But anyways, yeah, I don't like Rush a whole lot, even if I agree with him SOMETIMES, I like Glen Beck when he isn't being a total ass about Obama.

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To which I'm saying if it was Nov 08 Republicans would have lost again, but by a larger margin.
Racists who voted for Mccain don't have to be a conservative republican..but anyways yeah I'll go ahead and say there a bunch of backwood racist conservatives and other right wing nuts, just like there are left wing nuts.

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Once again, drop the all or nothing mentality. No one is saying ALL. But you have to ask yourself, why haven't you, 2861, Rush, Hannity, Beck truly stepped up called these people out, in fact why haven't you called Rush or Beck out on their racism? Why? Because you know you wouldn't have the numbers, and you're desperate. And also you still don't quite see it, which isn't blatant racism, but it's still racism. Why do you allow Rush to commision 'The Magic Negro' song and laugh while he plays it? Why did NO ONE on his side call him out on that shit? I thought you were all "christians"?
I actually did not know Rush played that song, for I don't listen to him much. And I do think it's terrible that he does that. As a matter of fact I don't listen to many conservative pundits, they kind of annoy me.
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Old 09-28-2009, 05:55 PM   #56
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so that automatically makes these people racist?
See, I'm not sure what you are talking about since there is no paticular part of my post quoted.

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As a matter of fact I don't listen to many conservative pundits, they kind of annoy me.
Good for you.
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:01 PM   #57
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See, I'm not sure what you are talking about since there is no paticular part of my post quoted.
I was directing that towards the picture, which in retrospect I guess you can quote haha
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:11 PM   #58
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So you don't think those people in the photo are racists? Are you serious?

THIS is part of the problem.

Is there any hope for conservatives?
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:15 PM   #59
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so that automatically makes these people racist?
Yes.
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:19 PM   #60
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What if say Michael Steele was president? Then what?


but he's not.

i think that if Obama were white that many of the teabaggers would disagree with him, it's just that race makes it easier to hate him.

then again, these people were/are irrational about the Clintons.
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