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Old 03-21-2010, 05:09 PM   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trojanchick99 View Post
It's a step in the right direction which is huge. Hopefully we will see a public option in my lifetime.
Medicare passed in 1967

and there have been dozens and dozens of fixes and amendments to it since then.

So lets see what happens, the GOP may be able to present some good suggestions on corrections and fixes in the future.


edit to add:

I just watched Stupak on the news, he probably did more good than harm, seems like a sincere person.

Health Care is more important than trying to protect the 'right to abortion' at every turn.

The Hyde Amendment has been around for years, so let the darn thing live for those that can't live without it.
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Old 03-21-2010, 05:28 PM   #317
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My concern is, can a public option be passed just via an amendment, or might it have to be a separate bill?
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Old 03-21-2010, 05:39 PM   #318
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Also, btw, why are so sure this is the final victory? The bill will still have to go back to the Senate, and if they change a single word - and senate Republicans are saying they will - it will have to go back to the House for another vote.
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Old 03-21-2010, 05:46 PM   #319
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My concern is, can a public option be passed just via an amendment, or might it have to be a separate bill?

I think it will take a complete train wreck, for a public option to pass

and we may get that in a few years
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Old 03-21-2010, 05:50 PM   #320
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David Frum talks sense, or at least sensibly:


Quote:
Waterloo

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s.

It’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. Conservatives may cheer themselves that they’ll compensate for today’s expected vote with a big win in the November 2010 elections. But:

(1) It’s a good bet that conservatives are over-optimistic about November – by then the economy will have improved and the immediate goodies in the healthcare bill will be reaching key voting blocs.

(2) So what? Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now.

So far, I think a lot of conservatives will agree with me. Now comes the hard lesson:

A huge part of the blame for today’s disaster attaches to conservatives and Republicans ourselves.

At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994.

Only, the hardliners overlooked a few key facts: Obama was elected with 53% of the vote, not Clinton’s 42%. The liberal block within the Democratic congressional caucus is bigger and stronger than it was in 1993-94. And of course the Democrats also remember their history, and also remember the consequences of their 1994 failure.

This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none.

Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994.

Barack Obama badly wanted Republican votes for his plan. Could we have leveraged his desire to align the plan more closely with conservative views? To finance it without redistributive taxes on productive enterprise – without weighing so heavily on small business – without expanding Medicaid? Too late now. They are all the law.

No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. Even if Republicans scored a 1994 style landslide in November, how many votes could we muster to re-open the “doughnut hole” and charge seniors more for prescription drugs? How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents’ insurance coverage? And even if the votes were there – would President Obama sign such a repeal?

We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat.

There were leaders who knew better, who would have liked to deal. But they were trapped. Conservative talkers on Fox and talk radio had whipped the Republican voting base into such a frenzy that deal-making was rendered impossible. How do you negotiate with somebody who wants to murder your grandmother? Or – more exactly – with somebody whom your voters have been persuaded to believe wants to murder their grandmother?

I’ve been on a soapbox for months now about the harm that our overheated talk is doing to us. Yes it mobilizes supporters – but by mobilizing them with hysterical accusations and pseudo-information, overheated talk has made it impossible for representatives to represent and elected leaders to lead. The real leaders are on TV and radio, and they have very different imperatives from people in government. Talk radio thrives on confrontation and recrimination. When Rush Limbaugh said that he wanted President Obama to fail, he was intelligently explaining his own interests. What he omitted to say – but what is equally true – is that he also wants Republicans to fail. If Republicans succeed – if they govern successfully in office and negotiate attractive compromises out of office – Rush’s listeners get less angry. And if they are less angry, they listen to the radio less, and hear fewer ads for Sleepnumber beds.

So today’s defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it’s mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it’s Waterloo all right: ours.
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Old 03-21-2010, 06:14 PM   #321
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somebody posted a Frum in here a couple days back

I don't know if it was the same one.


The Dems do face some perils here. No doubt insurance costs will continue to go up.


Now, the GOP can blame it on this bill. And pretend like everything was great in the 'good old days' before Obama care.

They will find people to stand up and tell horrors stories.
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Old 03-21-2010, 06:27 PM   #322
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The vote on the Rules for the Debate


206 - NO to 224 - YES


is this a precursor to the actual vote?
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Old 03-21-2010, 06:29 PM   #323
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How much in overtime is a Sunday vote costing all of us?
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Old 03-21-2010, 06:46 PM   #324
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Two hours of debate and then the vote.
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Old 03-21-2010, 06:50 PM   #325
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What's the price for that? We both know that no member of Congress will work for free.
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Old 03-21-2010, 06:57 PM   #326
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Is that really a concern, in the scope of what is being accomplished here?
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Old 03-21-2010, 07:00 PM   #327
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Rep. Steny Hoyer is speaking on the House floor.

He just thanked his two punk staffers.
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Old 03-21-2010, 07:16 PM   #328
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Is that really a concern, in the scope of what is being accomplished here?
I wonder why they couldn't do it on Monday?
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Old 03-21-2010, 07:20 PM   #329
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they held congress in session both Saturday and Sunday
so the Congressmen could not go back to their districts and raise hell and / or get bombarded by protesters
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Old 03-21-2010, 07:23 PM   #330
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So is that it? Are we done with this now? Can we move on to pet health care reform? Cos that shit is craaaaaaaazy expensive.
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