MANDATORY health insurance, part 2

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the bush years?

yep wasn't happy about that. i protested the war in washington over a weekend several years ago. my wifes cousin died for nothing in faluja iraq so we were motivated to go. as a result over the spending for the war we voted for obama. mistake obviously, mccain is no better, but a mistake never the less.
 
Calm down....did you read my first sentence....IF I DIDN"T FEEL LIKE A SERVANT ALREADY>>>> learn to read, i didn't want the war either.... i resent being called a cherry picker and i don't feel as though I deserved that.

I didn't see where you were angry about the war in your first statement, so I can't really be held accountable for that, but I'll apologize anyway.
From what I've read over the past day or so, this plan should pay for itself in the long run and create more jobs within the insurance industry. It's just hard to see those benefits with near-sighted glasses.
 
On a side note, I think the majority of this bill is gonna be scratched out within the next year or so anyway. Lord knows the Republicans can't let the Democrats have their way for too long and the Democrats are always more than happy to roll over and play dead to appease them.
I honestly believe civil war is approaching and have thought so long before this debate. :shrug:
 
I didn't see where you were angry about the war in your first statement, so I can't really be held accountable for that, but I'll apologize anyway.
From what I've read over the past day or so, this plan should pay for itself in the long run and create more jobs within the insurance industry. It's just hard to see those benefits with near-sighted glasses.


my statement was, if i didn't feel like an indebutured servent already, in reference to the war spending i should have been more specific. the only problems with more jobs in the insurance industry is that they are government jobs. my father is a hospital administrator for the veterens administration so he knows how government health care runs, don't i have much hope for effiencey or quality.
 
On a side note, I think the majority of this bill is gonna be scratched out within the next year or so anyway. Lord knows the Republicans can't let the Democrats have their way for too long and the Democrats are always more than happy to roll over and play dead to appease them.
I honestly believe civil war is approaching and have thought so long before this debate. :shrug:

Agreed, the only real hope is to have a legitimate centerist party run by the people, not lobbyists or companys
 
the only problems with more jobs in the insurance industry is that they are government jobs.

:scratch: Government didn't seize insurance companies. There wasn't even a public option offered. They simply mandated that people must have insurance or pay the fines. It's implied in the bill that the cost of insurance will reduce significantly now that people won't be dropped as easily and people can buy their own health insurance at their terms. It would be in your (general your) benefit to buy into a health insurance policy. Someone's gotta sell the policy, so jobs will be created.
At least that's what I got from the bill. I started studying it at like 9:30 pm last night. :lol:

Agreed, the only real hope is to have a legitimate centerist party run by the people, not lobbyists or companys

This will never happen. People aren't smart enough and the other two parties squash anyone who tries to get in on their game. Maybe if civil war does happen...

And when I say civil war I don't mean bang bang, shoot shoot. More like a legal fiasco and cessation of certain states that are dominated by one party, followed by a mass exodus of people who are on the other side of the argument to another state and so on and so forth. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad to have a European Union type thing going on where each state can do what they please. I don't know. :(
 
McCain, who is in a tough Republican primary fight in his home state, said the GOP "will challenge it every place we can," and said there will be reprisals at the polls, in Congress and in the courts.



i think the right will have moved on to the next outrage by next week. i suppose there are some upsides to the microsecond attention span.
 
:scratch: Government didn't seize insurance companies. There wasn't even a public option offered. They simply mandated that people must have insurance or pay the fines. It's implied in the bill that the cost of insurance will reduce significantly now that people won't be dropped as easily and people can buy their own health insurance at their terms. It would be in your (general your) benefit to buy into a health insurance policy. Someone's gotta sell the policy, so jobs will be created.
At least that's what I got from the bill. I started studying it at like 9:30 pm last night. :lol:



This will never happen. People aren't smart enough and the other two parties squash anyone who tries to get in on their game. Maybe if civil war does happen...

And when I say civil war I don't mean bang bang, shoot shoot. More like a legal fiasco and cessation of certain states that are dominated by one party, followed by a mass exodus of people who are on the other side of the argument to another state and so on and so forth. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad to have a European Union type thing going on where each state can do what they please. I don't know. :(

i know you didn't mean violence
 
Most of what I know about the health care bill is how it will affect employers, since that's my job. Things are going to get .... interesting, to say the least. Employers who have been doing the right thing by offering low-cost, good benefits to even part-time employees are still going to get dinged with the changes.

On the other hand, while I don't think this bill is the greatest thing since sliced bread, I do think it is a step in the right direction, and I will do my best to remain hopeful.

All that being said, I need to put this thread on ignore for my own sanity. Have fun debatin'! :wave:
 
^ what i mean by centerist party is one that is not liberal or conservative, but looks at each situation on its own merits, which is something that our country does not do.
 
my state is bankrupt do to entitlement programs and so is uncle sam. i guess being fiscally irresponsible is the right thing to do. time to up my credit card limit and go to town, then others can pick up for my irresponsible spending...life is great, no accountablily for anyone at anytime. :up:

You honestly believe that life is just an "entitlement program"?

No system will ever be perfect, but when you see as many people die as I have for the sole reason that they couldn't afford the simplest treatment that you and I could take for granted it's hard to be that cold.
 
She got turned down for what kind of treatment? After a certain point there really is no treatment for alzheimer's.

Today I am proud, for maybe my children will grow up in a country where profits won't decide if someone lives or dies, and their friends' health won't be determined by what kind of job their friends' parents have.

"profit" and "job," two outdated concepts that you may after explain to your children in a post-Obama America.
 
so when does the new Trabant line start shipping out to the US?????

think the bill was a good first step. costs are always going to be a problem, but to sit around and do nothing just didn't seem right.
 
You honestly believe that life is just an "entitlement program"?

No system will ever be perfect, but when you see as many people die as I have for the sole reason that they couldn't afford the simplest treatment that you and I could take for granted it's hard to be that cold.

as i mentioned my grandmother getting rejected from medicare so I have been there. i don't believe life is an entitlement program but people want one so i am in the minority.
 
so when does the new Trabant line start shipping out to the US?????

think the bill was a good first step. costs are always going to be a problem, but to sit around and do nothing just didn't seem right.

i agree that doing nothing is a bad option, however try things that don't cost the US any money. Hasn't the govt taken enough of our money for wars and bankrupt social tools?
 
"profit" and "job," two outdated concepts that you may after explain to your children in a post-Obama America.

For sure.

I live in Soviet Canuckistan and this corporate lawyering thing is neither a job nor profitable, so I can tell your children all about the dire state of affairs.
 
"profit" and "job," two outdated concepts that you may after explain to your children in a post-Obama America.

This is why it's hard to take your side seriously... "Logic" and "humankind" two outdated concepts that I and others will have to teach the children of the Tea Partiers.
 
i agree that doing nothing is a bad option, however try things that don't cost the US any money. Hasn't the govt taken enough of our money for wars and bankrupt social tools?

Ok, then i recommend people start working for free.

There is no easy solution, and while i do agree we need to find ways to do stuff without sending costs through the roof....it's just not going to happen.

Someone will always want to make a profit. In this case Insurance companies want that money still, and while this bill does give more americans coverage, it still puts way too much money into the hands of Ins.

I think the initial thought of this bill was to help reduce costs, but in the end the dems backed down.
 
what's also pretty fucking brilliant is that Obamacare is just about the same as Romneycare in Massachusetts.

seeing that Mittens is, at this juncture, the presumptive GOP nominee, he'll now be forced to literally run against his own record.

there's that Obama judo for you again.

as ever, it's chess, not checkers.
 
and was an advocate for gay rights ... in Massachusetts, at least.

remember, Romney is whatever you want him to be.

I was thinking about that, too.

DADT was supposed to be repealed by now.

Obama was many things to many different people.


Obama and Romney are more similar that you may want to admit.
 
I was thinking about that, too.

DADT was supposed to be repealed by now.

Obama was many things to many different people.


Obama and Romney are more similar that you may want to admit.




in that both men are politicians, yes.

and, yes, Obama is well aware that many people look at him and see what they want to see. i think that's a distinction to be made in comparison to the oleaginous Romney.
 
Randy Neugebauer (R-Tex.) identified himself as the member of Congress who shouted "baby killer" during Rep. Bart Stupak's (D-Mich.) speech on the floor of the House of Representatives Sunday night.

Neugebauer, a three-term member of Congress from Texas, issued a statement of apology on Monday, saying that the statement was not directed at Stupak.

"In the heat and emotion of the debate, I exclaimed the phrase 'it's a baby killer' in reference to the agreement reached by the Democratic leadership," Neugebauer said. "I deeply regret that my actions were mistakenly interpreted as a direct reference to Congressman Stupak himself.

Here is the Texas Republican's statement of apology:

"Last night was the climax of weeks and months of debate on a health care bill that my constituents fear and do not support. In the heat and emotion of the debate, I exclaimed the phrase 'it's a baby killer' in reference to the agreement reached by the Democratic leadership. While I remain heartbroken over the passage of this bill and the tragic consequences it will have for the unborn, I deeply regret that my actions were mistakenly interpreted as a direct reference to Congressman Stupak himself.


"I have apologized to Mr. Stupak and also apologize to my colleagues for the manner in which I expressed my disappointment about the bill. The House Chamber is a place of decorum and respect. The timing and tone of my comment last night was inappropriate."

House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.) acknowledged Neugebauer's mea culpa on Monday, but suggested that the Texas Republican needed to apologize to the full House.


"He needs to go to the well," Clyburn said, according to Roll Call. "He disrupted the decorum of the House of Representatives."

Neugebauer's outburst came at the end of an intense day of debate and voting on the health care reform bill. Stupak, an anti-abortion Democrat who struck a deal with the White House in exchange for a "yes" vote on the bill, had taken to the floor of the House to deliver a speech opposing a Republican amendment that would have reintroduced stricter abortion financing language in the bill -- language that Stupak, himself, previously introduced.

It was during Stupak's remarks that the shout, "baby killer" was heard in the chamber. The shouter was not immediately identified, but reporters and members of Congress confirmed that it came from the Republican side of the House.
 
Federal funding for abortion that allegedly could happen with this bill-but Obama has agreed to sign an executive order that is supposed to prevent that. That's how the Democrats got Stupak and the other pro life Democrats to vote for the bill yesterday. The Republicans say that an executive order is meaningless in the face of this bill that becomes law-and maybe some of the Democrats who voted no felt that way too.
 
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