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Old 02-01-2006, 03:41 PM   #61
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4670370.stm
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Old 02-01-2006, 03:59 PM   #62
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another shows him saying that paradise was running short of virgins for suicide bombers


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It did so to show "religious dogma" had no place in a secular society, the paper said.

European Muslims spoke out against the pictures.

The president of the French Council of the Muslim Faith (CFCM), Dalil Boubakeur, described France Soir's move as an act of "real provocation towards the millions of Muslims living in France".

In Germany, the vice-chairman of the central council of Muslims said Muslims would be deeply offended.

"It was done not to defend freedom of the press, but to spite the Muslims," Mohammad Aman Hobohm said.
This time I believe the Muslims

these papers were not under attack for freedom of the press.

They could write pages and pages about this issue, and anything related to it with little if any protests.

the pictures are to incite, no other reason.
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Old 02-01-2006, 05:00 PM   #63
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And Osam dosent insite Violence with his corrupt version of Islam. Mabey the papers were showing europe what all the fuss is about.
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Old 02-01-2006, 07:27 PM   #64
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Originally posted by deep






This time I believe the Muslims

these papers were not under attack for freedom of the press.

They could write pages and pages about this issue, and anything related to it with little if any protests.

the pictures are to incite, no other reason.
How are these papers not under attack for freedom of the press??!

....and what is your conclusion in this concrete case? Which initiatives must be taken right now?
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Old 02-01-2006, 08:26 PM   #65
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Originally posted by Justin24
And Osam dosent insite Violence with his corrupt version of Islam. Mabey the papers were showing europe what all the fuss is about.
Of course Osama incites violence with his twisted interpretation of Islam. I think the papers had a very secular mindset when they published these cartoons, and there is a grand total of one secular state in the Middle East, and that's Turkey. The cartoons strike me as having a "I'm going to freak out the Muslims" intent.
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Old 02-01-2006, 08:31 PM   #66
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Originally posted by verte76

The cartoons strike me as having a "I'm going to freak out the Muslims" intent.
as someone who has a better understanding of Islam than many posters
in here
I am not surprised that you get the intent is to incite

not fighting for a free press
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Old 02-01-2006, 08:50 PM   #67
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Originally posted by deep
and some people might not see anything wrong with naked pictures of your sister


you might be outraged
and others might say
"I don't see anything wrong with that."
Piss poor example if I do say so, genuine pictures of my sister would be illegal at this stage and if later on she elected to do such photography it would hardly be against the law.

On the other hand taking pictures without consent, that would be a legal issue.

As for freedom of the press the danger the paper highlighted is self-censorship. Because of the virus of the mind that is religion (broadly speaking) that has a great ability to drive people insane at a percieved slight many do not mock Islam and it's beliefs like they do others, the case of Theo Van Gough illustrates how such criticism can be dangerous in modern Europe. If Muslims get offended tough fucking shit, but we should not be cowed into self-censorship and silence out of fear from the minority of literalists that would do harm to those who offend them.
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:04 PM   #68
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Piss poor example if I do say so,
Is this a piss poor example?






many find this image offensive
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:07 PM   #69
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Yes and they don't go around demanding boycotts or getting a little bit choppy at it's creators.
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:10 PM   #70
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Yes and they don't go around demanding boycotts or getting a little bit choppy at it's creators.
i'll give you a redo

on this one
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:13 PM   #71
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Boycotts and murders are factual examples at what critics of Islam in Western Europe have faced in recent years, this represents a great danger to free expression and is the reason that the paper invited cartoonists for their view on Mohammed.
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:15 PM   #72
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Serrano's art work generated many boycotts.
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:17 PM   #73
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At a national level

Any murders?

And wasn't Piss Christ underwritten by a government grant?
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:19 PM   #74
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It was Piss Christ, Andres Serrano's photograph of a crucifix immersed in his own urine, together with Robert Mapplethorpe's homoerotic images, that in 1989 set off the attack against art from the far Right. In a short period of time, Serrano was transformed from a relatively successful but reclusive New York artist and member of the collective Group Material into a celebrity/pariah under perpetual public scrutiny.

He has received death threats and hate mail and has lost grants on the one hand, and on the other has enjoyed dozens of laudatory articles and a sizeable hike in his prices. Furthermore, the fuss caused by Christian fundamentalists has hardly dimmed Serrano's fascination with religious iconography.
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:21 PM   #75
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But Christians around the world didn't start demanding boycotts of US goods and the artist didn't get a nasty note pinned through his sternum.

The response that a believer gives when their beliefs are threatened in the slightest way will be disproportionate. But if we allow the believers to dominate expression with violence then free discourse doesn't exist.
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