Kuwaitis call for boycott of Danish goods

[2numb2feel]

Syria is a police state, with a large gathering of people in protest it is very difficult to imagine the government not being able to control them (for instance look up the reception that David Duke was given in Damascus). The attacks on the embassies in Syria and Iran was permitted through the minimum possible action by the respective governments, The boycotts being employed by these governments also shows off their Islamic credentials and can help keep popular opinion at bay (remeber that in the Egyptian elections the Muslim Brotherhood came out quite strongly).

You are saying that they permitted public sentiment to be directed at others (those countries in which the cartoons were latterly published) but that is notably different than "directing all anger outwards to prevent internal dissent". To make such a claim requires

1) evidence that there were significant levels of internal dissent directed towards the governments of those countries.

2) That the governments in these countries willingly redirected anger outwards to stay 1).


Do you have any evidence for either of these necessary premises?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

MSNBC News Services
Updated: 8:39 a.m. ET Feb. 9, 2006

BEIRUT, Lebanon - Hundreds of thousands of Shiite Muslims transformed a religious ceremony in Lebanon on Thursday into an emotional but peaceful protest against cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad.

“Defending the prophet should continue worldwide,” Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, told the crowd. “Let (U.S. Secretary of State) Condoleezza Rice, (President) Bush and all the tyrants shut up: We are a nation that can’t forgive, be silent or ease up when they insult our prophet and our sacred values.”

“Today, we are defending the dignity of our prophet with a word, a demonstration but let George Bush and the arrogant world know that if we have to ... we will defend our prophet with our blood, not our voices,” Nasrallah added.

Rice on Wednesday accused Iran and Syria, both backers of Hezbollah and at loggerheads with the West, of deliberately stoking rage among Muslims.

Bush urged governments to stop the violence, including attacks on Western diplomatic missions in parts of the Muslim world.

 

[nbcrusader]

How pissed off are these people at their own government, and how much of the anger is directed at the cartoon? Combine the two and you've got a ton of anger, which blew up all over the Middle East this week. It was anger directed at several governments, Denmark, and the EU.

Your posts suggest that Muslims are angry people that can be "set off" by something as simple as a cartoon.

 

[nbcrusader]

Bush, Rice told to ‘shut up’ over cartoon issue

BEIRUT, Lebanon - Hundreds of thousands of Shiite Muslims transformed a religious ceremony in Lebanon on Thursday into an emotional but peaceful protest against cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad.

“Defending the prophet should continue worldwide,” Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, told the crowd. “Let (U.S. Secretary of State) Condoleezza Rice, (President) Bush and all the tyrants shut up: We are a nation that can’t forgive, be silent or ease up when they insult our prophet and our sacred values.”

“Today, we are defending the dignity of our prophet with a word, a demonstration but let George Bush and the arrogant world know that if we have to ... we will defend our prophet with our blood, not our voices,” Nasrallah added.

 

[nbcrusader]

Deep anger, not cartoons, spurred Muslim protests

Even as protests intensified yesterday against the publication of cartoons satirizing the Prophet Muhammad, scholars who study the Muslim world caution that the cartoons themselves are almost unimportant.

What matters more, they say, is a store of frustration and anger among Muslims that was ready to be ignited, if not by cartoons originally published in a Danish newspaper then by some other image or event that in the West would first seem unremarkable.

Citizens of many Middle Eastern countries are aggrieved by corruption and lack of democracy, and eager to express their fury, said Sanam Vakil, assistant professor of Middle East studies at Johns Hopkins' School of Advanced International Studies in Washington. Wary governments, meanwhile, have seized on the cartoon controversy to deflect that frustration.

"They are allowing people to unleash their anger on foreigners rather than on their leaders," Vakil said. "You have to understand that many of these protests are sanctioned by their governments, and many of these governments are autocratic dictatorships."

Perhaps the further spead of democracy will lead to a more peaceful region. Getting there will be difficult, but it appears to be the better long term solution.

 

[A_Wanderer]

You are saying that they permitted public sentiment to be directed at others (those countries in which the cartoons were latterly published) but that is notably different than "directing all anger outwards to prevent internal dissent". To make such a claim requires

1) evidence that there were significant levels of internal dissent directed towards the governments of those countries.

2) That the governments in these countries willingly redirected anger outwards to stay 1).


Do you have any evidence for either of these necessary premises?

I think that the success of hard Islamic parties in elections (Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas) demonstrates the threat to many a secular dictators power, terrorist attacks against their interests have hit all over the Arab world, the power that the police excercise against active dissent (Egypt arresting bloggers), the absence of a critical media - there is a reason that these countries banned Al Jazeera - all point towards dictators wanting to show off their Islamic credentials in the eyes of a public who is becoming increasingly torn between the decaying ruin of kleptocratic government and self appointed protecters of moral virtues in Islamic parties.

 

[A_Wanderer]

LONDON (Reuters) - The European Union may try to draw up a media code of conduct to avoid a repeat of the furor caused by the publication across Europe of cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad, an EU commissioner said on Thursday.

In an interview with Britain’s Daily Telegraph, EU Justice and Security Commissioner Franco Frattini said the charter would encourage the media to show “prudence” when covering religion.

“The press will give the Muslim world the message: We are aware of the consequences of exercising the right of free expression,” he told the newspaper. “We can and we are ready to self-regulate that right.”

link

Well sounds like a fun little kingdom.

 

[Irvine511]

Perhaps the further spead of democracy will lead to a more peaceful region. Getting there will be difficult, but it appears to be the better long term solution. [/B]

democracy delivered with bombs and occupations?

while i think we can all agree that democracy is a good thing, isn't the delivery system just as important? doesn't the means of delivering democracy, if poorly chosen, sabotauge the process before it even begins? also, what if democracy results in the installation of Shia theocracy across the Middle East, uniting Iran and Iraq?

 

[A_Wanderer]

Some bits come out

Furor over the caricatures of Islam's most revered figure may have triggered the wave of recent demonstrations among Muslims worldwide. But as the protests escalate, they are morphing into an opportunity for individuals, groups and governments to push agendas that often have little or nothing to do with defending Islam. Rallies ostensibly held for religious reasons have become chances to vent economic frustrations, settle local scores or gain political leverage.
.....
The autocratic Syrian government was widely believed to be behind protests Saturday that resulted in the burning of the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus. In Lebanon, where the Danish Embassy burned a day later and Christian landmarks were targeted in violence, local news organizations reported that Syrian agents had protesters bused in to help stir up trouble.

link

People watching TV news may think that the whole Muslim world is ablaze with righteous rage translated into "spontaneous demonstrations." The truth is that the overwhelming majority of Muslims, even if offended by cartoons which they have not seen, have stayed away from the street shows put on by the radicals and the Iranian and Syrian security services.

The destruction of Danish and Norwegian embassies and consulates happened in only two places: Damascus and Beirut. Anyone who knows Syria would know that there are no spontaneous demonstrations in that dictatorship. (Even then, the Syrian secret police failed to attract more than 1,000 rent-a-mob militants.) And the Syrian government refused the Norwegian Embassy's request for additional police protection. It was clear that the Syrians wanted the embassies sacked.

The rent-a-mob attacks in Beirut were more cynical. The Syrian Ba'ath — which has been murdering, imprisoning or deporting Sunni-Salafi militants for years — was suddenly transformed from a radical secular and Socialist party into "the Vanguard of the Faith." The mob that committed the atrocities in Beirut was bused from Syria and consisted of Muslim Brotherhood militants who are never allowed to demonstate on their own account.

The Muslim crowds that have demonstrated over the cartoons seldom exceeded a few hundred; the Muslim segment of humanity is estimated at 1.2 billion. And only three of Denmark's embassies in 57 Muslim countries have been attacked.

link

 

[2numb2feel]

Meanwhile, Jyllands-Posten has reiterated its apologies to Muslims for causing offence by publishing the original 12 cartoons, in a letter to the Algerian press. The letter was distributed via the Danish embassy in Algiers.

"We apologise for the great misunderstanding generated by the publication of the caricatures that showed the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and created aggressive feelings towards Denmark and calls for boycotts against Danish goods," the paper said.

"These caricatures have clearly offended millions of Muslims around the world and it is for these reasons that we are apologising and offering our deepest regrets for what has happened, which was not our intention."

http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,,1706374,00.html

 

[financeguy]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4699716.stm



"Thousands rallied in Malaysia's capital as their PM spoke
Malaysia's prime minister says a huge chasm has opened between the West and Islam, fuelled by Muslim frustrations over Western foreign policy.
Abdullah Badawi, seen as promoting a moderate form of Islam in largely Muslim Malaysia, said many Westerners saw Muslims as congenital terrorists. "

 

[deep]

another cartoon

 

[Sue DeNym]

Upping the ante?

Holocaust Cartoon Contest In Iran

A prominent Iranian newspaper says it is going to hold a competition for cartoons on the Holocaust to test whether the West will apply the principle of freedom of expression to the Nazi genocide against Jews as it did to the caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.

When will the madness end?!

 

[verte76]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4699716.stm



"Thousands rallied in Malaysia's capital as their PM spoke
Malaysia's prime minister says a huge chasm has opened between the West and Islam, fuelled by Muslim frustrations over Western foreign policy.
Abdullah Badawi, seen as promoting a moderate form of Islam in largely Muslim Malaysia, said many Westerners saw Muslims as congenital terrorists. "

Oh, so some of the anger is towards U.S. foreign policy, I'm sure, especially towards our pro-Israel policy, which they feel is anti-Palestinian. That along with the anger over the cartoon just exploded into psychotic displays of hatred. The whole thing was downright scary.

 

[verte76]

The latest news as protests continue.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-02-11-iran-caricatures_x.htm

 

[financeguy]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006070007,00.html

 

[A_Wanderer]

This protest

 

[financeguy]

Why do they hate us?



http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13505744,00.html

 

[financeguy]

This protest

"..critically rational individualist perspective. We are developing the social individualist meta-context for the future. From the very serious to the extremely frivolous... lets see what is on the mind of the Samizdata people."


What, pray, is a 'meta-context'?

 

[A_Wanderer]

Why do they hate us?



http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13505744,00.html

As far as I am aware time does not run backwards and effect cannot precede cause.

 

[A_Wanderer]

A Muslim leader behind a mass rally in London yesterday gave a warning of "fire throughout the world" if the West continues to publish cartoons of Mohammed.

At the protest in Trafalgar Square, attended by 5,000 Muslims, there were no arrests and none of the inflammatory placards or costumes seen at last weekend's demonstrations.

However, a row erupted over comments by Dr Azam Tamimi, a senior figure in the Muslim Association of Britain, which staged the event. He told Sky News: "The publication of these cartoons will cause the world to tremble. Fire will be throughout the world if they don't stop."

Last night Louise Ellman, the Labour MP and vice-chairman of Labour Friends of Israel, said: "It is inciting confrontation when he should be calming the situation." A Muslim Labour MP at the protest distanced himself from Dr Tamimi's comments. Sadiq Khan, the MP for Tooting, said: "Speakers can get carried away, but they are just flowery words. I don't take them on board and others shouldn't."

Organisers of the rally said it was intended to show that moderate Muslims believed in peaceful protest. Coaches brought protesters from Bradford, Oldham, Luton, Leicester, Birmingham, Cardiff and Glasgow and imams had appealed for the avoidance of behaviour that would "shame Islam".

Thousands of official placards bore the slogans "United against Incitement", "United against Islamaphobia" and "Mohammed - Symbol of Freedom and Honour".

More than 700 police and stewards were on hand to stop the rally being hijacked.

Police, criticised last week for standing by while protesters displayed slogans such as "Massacre those who insult Islam", ordered demonstrators to remove Socialist Worker stickers saying "Blair must go".

The rally was endorsed by the Muslim Council of Britain and speakers included the Liberal Democrat MP Sarah Teather and Labour's Jeremy Corbyn. But while most speakers received noisy applause, there was an eerie quiet - and some booing - when George Galloway, the Respect MP, addressed the crowd.

Habibur Rahman, the president of the Islamic Forum Europe, told extremists: "When you burn the Union Jack what are you burning but the flag of your home?"

link

 

[A_Wanderer]

It is actually a brilliant demonstration of two forces against free speech, on one side you have the censoring of Islamists so that the message can be one of "Respect", the other is police removing a political message.

 

[A_Wanderer]

More western cultural imperialism

Nearly two dozen black-veiled Muslim women stormed gift and stationery shops Friday in Kashmir, burning Valentine's Day cards and posters to protest a holiday they say imposes Western values on Muslim youth.

No one was hurt in the half-dozen or so incidents, and police cordoned off the area to prevent the women from marching through Srinagar's main shopping district to continue their ransacking.

The women were from the Kashmiri Islamic group Dukhtaran-e-Millat, or Daughters of the Community, Kashmir's only women's separatist group, whose members are also known for their fiercely conservative social views.

"We will not let anyone sell these cards or celebrate Valentine's Day," said Asiya Andrabi, the group's leader, as she held a burning poster in her hand. "These Western gimmicks are corrupting our kids and taking them away from their roots."

She said that the raids were carried out "not to harm anyone but to make them realize that this is against Islam's teachings."

The protesters dispersed after chanting religious slogans. Mohammad Sarwar, though, was furious as he looked over the goods tossed around his small stationery store.

"They barged in, grabbed cards and posters and burnt them outside. Most of the cards were not even Valentine cards. It is difficult to do business with such threats looming overhead," he said.

Valentine's Day has become increasingly popular in India over the past decade. But it has also become a cultural flash point, opposed each year in India by conservative Hindu and Muslim groups who see it as a reflection of growing permissiveness.

link

 

[1stepcloser]

This whole issue has got so out of hand. I'm glad i live in the Western world.

Some of these 'extremists' are so childish and intolerent but it's still quite a scary thought that there are some people out there who hate us just because we have the freedom to get drunk, have casual sex and get to say what we like. It's even more scary and ridiculous when they threaten death on us too

 

[verte76]

That's so idiotic to destroy all of that Valentine's Day stuff. What a bunch of klutzes.

 

[nbcrusader]

That's so idiotic to destroy all of that Valentine's Day stuff. What a bunch of klutzes.

Klutzes?

You've alluded to serious anger in prior posts.

This can't stem from the Mohammed cartoon alone.

What is the source of this anger?

 

[A_Wanderer]

Al-Masri's conviction, The Iraq War, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, Patriot Act, Invading Afghanistan, Jenin, Iraq sanctions, the second intafada, US troops in Saudi Arabia, Operation Desert Fox, foiling Bojinka, Operation Desert Storm, US troops in Lebanon, Supporting Shah Reza Pahlavi, poor handling of the Iran hostage crisis, Yom Kippur, the 6 day war, the Suez Crisis, overthrowing Mossadegh, Nasserism, percecuting Qutb, establishing Israel, dissolution of the Caliphate, the siege of Vienna, the Reconquista, expulsion of the Arabs from Sicily, the Crusades, the battle of Tours...

Pick a root cause, they are all good and valid.

 

[yolland]

Israel News Agency To Post SEO Iran Holocaust Cartoons

By Israel News Agency Staff
February 13, 2006

JERUSALEM----In response to Iran's best-selling newspaper announcing a competition to find the best cartoons about the Holocaust, the Israel News Agency has begun to post the Holocaust cartoons.

"Iran is seeking any means to divert attention away from the fact that they are building nuclear weapons," said Joel Leyden, publisher of the Israel News Agency. "Iran states that they want to test the democratic limits of Western free speech by laughing at the Holocaust, and the INA is more than pleased to oblige in posting these cartoons. The only catch is that we are doing so with an educational, factual disclaimer inserted inside these Holocaust cartoons. It states: Six million Jews were gassed, shot and hung during the Holocaust. This cartoon does not promote 'free speech,' rather it illustrates Islamic racist hate and incitement to violence against all other religions."

The Israel News Agency, in posting the Holocaust cartoons, has launched an SEO (search engine optimization) marketing contest to prevent Iranian and Islamist terrorist groups' news websites from reaching top positions in Google. This is the first time that a SEO contest was created for a political and humanitarian cause. And the INA has secured Olympic gold in its quest to outrank any and all Islamist websites, as when one searches for the key words: "Iran Holocaust cartoons," the Israel News Agency has secured a Google first place ranking.

"When I heard that a newspaper in Iran was now holding a cartoon contest on the Holocaust, I knew that SEO would be the most potent tool in combating it," said Leyden. "What really puzzles me is that the Arab media trashes Judaism almost daily in their newspapers and yet we do not hear Jews chanting 'Death to Muslims'. But still there is no way that Iran will be allowed to spit on the graves of over 6 million Jews who perished in the Holocaust."

Iran made Holocaust denial government policy when Iran foreign minister Manouchehr Mottaki said in December that remarks made by the Iranian president that the Nazi mass murder of Jews during World War II was a "myth" was the official Iranian government position on the issue. Ahmadinejad made the Holocaust remarks after stating in October that Israel should be "wiped off the map." "The Palestinians or Islamic nations cannot be forced to pay for the injustices the Europeans believe they committed against the Jews," the minister said, speaking at Tehran airport after a visit to Pakistan.

The Holocaust was the systematic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of approximately 6 million Jews by the Nazi regime and its collaborators. In 1933, the Jewish population of Europe stood at over 9 million. By 1945, close to 2 out of every 3 European Jews had been killed as part of the "Final Solution", the Nazi policy to murder the Jews of Europe.

Although Jews were the primary victims of Nazi racism, the Nazis also targeted other groups because of their perceived "racial inferiority": Roma (Gypsies), the handicapped, and some of the Slavic peoples (Poles, Russians, and others). Other groups were persecuted on political and behavioral grounds, among them Communists, Socialists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and homosexuals. At least 200,000 mentally or physically disabled people were murdered in the Euthanasia Program. Tens of thousands of Roma were killed. As Nazi tyranny spread across Europe, the Nazis persecuted and murdered millions of other people. More than 3 million Soviet prisoners of war were murdered or died of starvation, disease, neglect, or maltreatment. The Germans targeted the non-Jewish Polish intelligentsia for killing, and deported millions of Polish and Soviet citizens for forced labor in Germany or occupied Poland.

US State Department spokesman Sean McCormack reiterated US support for freedom of expression throughout the world, including in Iran. But he saw no comparison between the plans by Hamshahri and the move by a Danish paper to run the Mohammed cartoons. "I don't think that anybody would draw any equivalences between, quote-en quote, 'freedom of the press' in Iran and freedom of the press in Western Europe or the United States," he said.

 

[Justin24]

A political leader in Italy had a shirt made with all the Mohommod Cartoons. I can see him getting killed in the near future.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsa...RUKOC_0_US-RELIGION-CARTOONS-ITALY.xml&rpc=22

 

[verte76]

I'm not really surprised that it's a far-right wing politician. Those guys are bad news. I don't like them.