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Old 12-07-2006, 08:11 AM   #16
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Originally posted by dazzlingamy
AIDS is not a health risk, if you practice safe sex (and i believe anyone who doesn't carries the burden of whatever happens to them, unless in extreme circumstances like rape etc) so only if you decide to share a needle, or practice unsafe sex are you going to possible get AIDS from them. There is no other way someone with AIDS can infect someone so to not let in someone with AIDS is stupid and not even a vaild point.

You can't guarantee that the person will always use a condom (many people with AIDS even in our Western society don't I've heard, I don't know why and it baffles me) so I don't see the point (from a perspective of someone in power) in letting a person in who will live out the rest of his life just absorbing medical costs and likely unable to work due to his disease. If you had a choice, surely you'd let the healthy migrant into the country who is capable of working and more than happy to work like the rest of us rather than someone with AIDs or someone who just wants to mooch off our system?
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Old 12-07-2006, 08:15 AM   #17
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Originally posted by all_i_want


Maybe Hanson does have a constituency out there..

Hmmm
Hanson is a racist and whatever credible points she has are overshadowed by her ignorant/racist/biggoted ideals.
A racist is someone who doesn't like a particular race for absolutely no reason, and in no way could you get the impression I'm a racist (if that's what you're implying) from reading my posts.
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Old 12-07-2006, 08:16 AM   #18
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I love how all these white supremacists have forgotten their own immigrant heritage. I'm sure the aboriginal peoples could have a few words with her.
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Old 12-07-2006, 08:19 AM   #19
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Also you'll find that Christianity is quite prevalent in Africa, and Christians strongly dissapprove of the condom which means if for example, we consider taking in a migrant from Africa who has AIDS there's a good chance his faith will prohibit him in practicing safe sex here and the disease will spread. Christianity kills (another issue altogether though)
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Old 12-07-2006, 08:23 AM   #20
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Well whatever Pauline Hanson may be, she has succeeded in her aim of gettin' folks talkin' about the subject of disease, in particular AIDS and the presumably dirty folks who have it (if indeed she had an aim beyond publicity).

On the topic of challenging the powerful, in no way do I agree that you have to adopt their viewpoint and agree with their premises and find a replacement solution (unless, perhaps, you are the leader of the Opposition). They are put there to serve us, and us, the messy rabble, have all sorts of viewpoints.

Being a realist isn't all it's cracked up to be, because the recent history of our world suggests to me that at least some people in power are in no way realistic, in their motives or their policy execution. Don't believe everything you hear in How The World Works 101.
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Old 12-07-2006, 08:27 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by AussieU2fanman
Also you'll find that Christianity is quite prevalent in Africa, and Christians strongly dissapprove of the condom which means if for example, we consider taking in a migrant from Africa who has AIDS there's a good chance his faith will prohibit him in practicing safe sex here and the disease will spread. Christianity kills (another issue altogether though)
What a load of rubbish. From the kernel of truth (the unpopularity of the safe-sex message among men in some African countries, which I think you'll find has as much to do with machismo as with any Christian doctrine), we leap by magnificent bounds to a new basis for immigration policy.

You do realise, that by your logic we should refuse any immigrant from Africa, right? After all, AIDs ain't the only nasty STD.

Or any Christian? After all, Christianity kills (another issue altogether).

I thought it was Islam that kills. I'm so confused.
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Old 12-07-2006, 08:33 AM   #22
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I don't approve of just casting aspersions on decisions made by people in positions of power. It makes no sense to me to simply show no empathy and rule out understanding their perspective and not come up with any alternatives of your own if you were them.
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Old 12-07-2006, 08:41 AM   #23
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Originally posted by Kieran McConville


What a load of rubbish. From the kernel of truth (the unpopularity of the safe-sex message among men in some African countries, which I think you'll find has as much to do with machismo as with any Christian doctrine), we leap by magnificent bounds to a new basis for immigration policy.

You do realise, that by your logic we should refuse any immigrant from Africa, right? After all, AIDs ain't the only nasty STD.

Or any Christian? After all, Christianity kills (another issue altogether).

I thought it was Islam that kills. I'm so confused.
AIDS is the deadliest disease - other STD's im not familiar with but they will pale in comparison to the devastating effects of aids. Why would we let AIDS infected people into the country that will just absorb medical and other welfare costs (like I said before) and is very likely not going to work and contribute to economic growth? And they can risk spreading the disease to other Australians. Justify it if you had to make the decision.

I raised the point of many africans not using condoms because of Christianity to provide an example of how it can be spread in our society if we let them migrate. And yes in that sense, Christianity can kill which is another issue.
AIds can also be spread if they are simply unwilling to use the condom for whatever reason (it happens) and IMO it's not worth the risk.
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Old 12-07-2006, 09:03 AM   #24
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Originally posted by AussieU2fanman
Why would we let AIDS infected people into the country that will just absorb medical and other welfare costs (like I said before) and is very likely not going to work and contribute to economic growth?
Quote:
A Department of Immigration spokeswoman rejected the claims, saying stringent health checks were carried out on all permanent and temporary residents.
Well, then, it looks like your fears are unfounded.
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Old 12-07-2006, 09:05 AM   #25
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Originally posted by dazzlingamy
Secondly, while i dont think immigrants should be able to recieve financial benefits for the rest of their lives purely for being refugees/immigrants, i do believe they should have the same access to everything and support and money to help set up a home for themselves here. We're not talking about millions of dollars per family, just enough to help them get on their feet to be ABLE to contribute to society. I don't think putting every single person to work will help anyway (and what about stay at home mums, people with severe trama etc)
Totally agree with you. But there are many cases (I even know of 2 I know who come into my work) where immigrants purely take advantage of our relatively VERY generous system and do not contribute to society. It angers me as it would anyone here.
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Old 12-07-2006, 09:07 AM   #26
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Well, then, it looks like your fears are unfounded.
I JUST noticed that and was about to adress it, thankyou for pointing that out. Does this mean people with AIDS are refused entry? That's what I'm assuming.....?
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Old 12-07-2006, 09:11 AM   #27
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Political choice in australia has gone downhill since the day Natasha Stott-Despoja quit (or was forced out) as leader of the Democrats. She's just about the only politician that i've had respect for in this country for a very long time.
The only positive I can see in the future is if Peter Garrett develops into a strong leader within the Labor Party.
And did anyone see the tv tonight with ulia Gillard being criticised for her hairstyle and dress sense? Seriously, is that what the public really care about in a female politician?
And don't even get me started on Pauline Hanson!!!
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Old 12-07-2006, 09:12 AM   #28
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But see, would you rather this person die out in a file din Africa from the disease, or live a relativly long life out here in Australia. I don't think we can pick and choose who we accept in this country. A perso with AIDS is really no different to someone who has diabetes. You can't catch AIDS, i do not see the big deal?
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Old 12-07-2006, 09:23 AM   #29
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Well I'll be the first American to jump in this thread, which I think is OK, given that we get your kind (joke!) in our threads all the time. This is thread really interesting, I didn't know much about Australian politics. We have a few American politicians I'd like to throw onto that Antartican island with this woman.


Quote:
Originally posted by AussieU2fanman
Also you'll find that Christianity is quite prevalent in Africa, and Christians strongly dissapprove of the condom which means if for example, we consider taking in a migrant from Africa who has AIDS there's a good chance his faith will prohibit him in practicing safe sex here and the disease will spread. Christianity kills (another issue altogether though)
It's not Christianity, first of all, it's Catholicism, which is somewhat prevalent but by far not the only factor. It's a conbination too of a macho attitude, of poor information dissemination and of unfortunately a great many bits of misinformation. It's cultural, beyond religion. But people who a) choose to emmigrate and b) begin living in another country show a few things. They show a willingness to leave their culture and join a new one, and they are prefectly eager to learn new customs. I've worked with refugrees waiting for "repatriation" as they call it - waiting for their number to come up so they can get into a Western country. They want this so badly and they are willing to open their minds to new cultures and practices. And largely it's a matter of poor education on the issue; once corrected (easily by the new country) this goes away.
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Old 12-07-2006, 09:24 AM   #30
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Originally posted by dazzlingamy
But see, would you rather this person die out in a file din Africa from the disease, or live a relativly long life out here in Australia. I don't think we can pick and choose who we accept in this country. A perso with AIDS is really no different to someone who has diabetes. You can't catch AIDS, i do not see the big deal?
IF they do not spread the disease (impossible to regulate and guarantee) and IF they can work and contribute to society then I'm all for it! That's most likely not the case, and I don't see the option of letting them in being justified on anything but compassionate grounds which is not the way a government works. The government doesn't want to let in migrants with AIDS and spend X dollars on them with medical/welfare costs whilst contributing nothing and risk them spreading disease. It makes no sense.
And apparantly, the government refuses entry to AIDS people already which makes my argument pointless because they agree with me.
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