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Old 08-21-2002, 05:52 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Z Edge/Spyplane/Love Muscle,
Perhaps you need to consider the possibility that people who criticise some things about America (namely American foreign policy) are motivated by something other than jealousy.

I'm not jealous of America. I don't want to make my home country (UK) more like America. I'm not sure what Americans have that I might be jealous of. Sure I'd love it if U2 were in the UK more often but if I wanted to express that then I'd say "I wish U2 would tour near my home more often" not "I'm disgusted by America's involvement in putting General Pinochet in power."
Good point FizzingWhizzbees. Im not from UK but I frequently feel the same. So I would like to endorse what you said.

Quote:
I know some people brought up the fact that they've been accused of being anti-American, which is quite relevant to this thread. I don't really understand why people assume that if someone is critical of America it automatically means they hate everything about the country.
Or you are with us or you are against us...thats a blatant example of manichaeanism that leads to nowhere, if you allow me. Nobody is right 100% of the time. People fail. Itss from human nature and I know youre human too.

I truly love many things about United States and its people, the same way I love many things about my country and my people. But that doesnt make me blind for your faults and our faults as well. Its just that (and I know Im repeating myself) you are the most powerful and blessed nation on Earth. If someone can actually DO some good that would be you. Im pretty sure its the way Bono thinks as well.

Last but not least...Mr. Spyplane, about that gentle present you offered me in that other thread...I would like to say that Ill take the but I allow myself to refuse the bombs. Thank you.
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Old 08-21-2002, 07:05 PM   #32
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wink

Perhaps, some children have problems w father figures?
Dunno.

DB9
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:06 PM   #33
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blech. i only wish i could vote more than once.
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:10 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by rafmed


I think we get post from abuses in many countries, personally if you posted about abuses here ( and of course there are) I would try to document the cases, and the actions that would has been taken if that would be the case.
RUBBISH!

thats not even the point and you know it, even if it were true!


Quote:
About walking on Mexico City with the american flag...you could be walking dressed as Uncle Sam and no one would provoque you in the way you think, maybe some would laugh seriously, you can see some american flags once and then in people clothes, I guess less than in USA, but they exist, the americans are well treated here, you can walk and no one bother you, if you would have a problem , someone surelly would give you a hand to help, and I believe that this happen in most places. Obviously some places not for the war cicunstances.
Well I said I feel like if...

Of course the flags are on the shirts in Mexice, but i used it as an example from the tone of things here in FYM and what we see in the media....

IF you are going to take everything literally and try to make fun of it then don't bother replying to my posts.
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:19 PM   #35
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Rubish? I'm dead serious.

I don't think I'm making fun of your last post, the Uncle Sam reference in any case is an attemp to tone down things, I'm serious about what I'm stating, I can see where you think is all vs USA, but I wish you could not see the post from me or others that you don't agree as personal attacks.

Peace.
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:21 PM   #36
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Re: america is a continent you know.

Quote:
Originally posted by Lilly

it's easy to get upset with everyone talking about the us's every move. but, honestly, were i the one to have posted each of raf's threads, would you call me unamerican?
Lilly
As someone who has selflessly put my own life on the line I am offended when the comments and protests get to the point that they have.

I can take a lot, I have a high tolerance for many things.

Once that tolerance is reached then things start happening.

That level was reached in FYM a long time ago, remember; I didn't always come to this forum and I didn't always have Bush quotes in my sig and my avatar and post plane pics.

To answer your question, you would appear un-american to me if you posted the same trash as rafmed on a public forum. I wouldn't hold against you any for having those thoughts, as long as you were considerate of others and did not post them as people do here.

Once a person does that they should not whine and complain at the reaction they get.
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:27 PM   #37
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z edge and raffie.

Both of you.

If you have a problem with each others posts I think you should discuss it in private.
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:28 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by OzAurora


Diamond you are a cool enough guy it seems, however I am going to try and restrain my tounge in response to this reply......OK in answer to your initial question spyplane, it is the arrogance that is expressed by many Americans and which was so eloquently displayed in the above quote by diamond that makes me for one get the shits with all things American...............I have never asked for their help and I think that American foregin policy since WW2 has so much to answer for, the Prime Minister of Australia may think George W is his Dadddy, but hell will freeze over before I would ever acknowledge Bush or anything American as my 'daddy', dont assume that the rest of the world are poor little defenseless children who need help, there really is a lot more to the world than all that is American, thank f@%k I am Australian
Good for you Oz, I appreciate your candidness but that "arrogance" goes both ways you know.

I wish we would have not helped ANYONE since WWII and shut our doors too.

I think America would be a much more prosperous country if we would have ignored the rest of the world in our own self-intrest and blasted anyone that looked at us funny.

Arrogant-yes, but I dont really feel that way of course.

Name me how Australia has joined in the fight to rid the world of Terrorism?

How has Australia tried to rid the world of hunger?
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:34 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spyplane
Name me how Australia has joined in the fight to rid the world of Terrorism?
but australia hasn't had their world trade center bombed. (even if they had one...)
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:35 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by TylerDurden
lol @ worshipping Johnny. Ive never understood that about Americans either, why they get so religious about their presidents. No other similar country does it with their leaders. Supporters yes, worshippers no. Or at least not to the same amount.
Open your eyes.
We have FAR FAR FAR more critics of our Presidents than supporters.

and worshippers? Thats funny- look at Iraq if yu want to see a case of blind worship of its leadership.



Quote:
Hope this doesn't turn into an Iraq thread.
me too
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:43 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spyplane


Good for you Oz, I appreciate your candidness but that "arrogance" goes both ways you know.

I wish we would have not helped ANYONE since WWII and shut our doors too.

I think America would be a much more prosperous country if we would have ignored the rest of the world in our own self-intrest and blasted anyone that looked at us funny.

Arrogant-yes, but I dont really feel that way of course.

Name me how Australia has joined in the fight to rid the world of Terrorism?

How has Australia tried to rid the world of hunger?
ok I really dont think I am being arrogant at all, I think that for some people sometimes the truth hurts and as a result they get a little bit upset........and to be quite honest I think that since WW11 America's involvement in many foreign affairs where the notion has appeared to be one of doing good has in reality and in retrospect been blatant interference and propaganda, just think of Korea, Vietnam, the cold war, Nicaragua, the Iran contra and now the so called war on terrorism and the Australian Prime Minister has aided the American's in the war against terrorism, I dont agree with it, but at this very moment there are Australian SAS troops in Afganistan, but oh yes, you wouldn't know that hey, funny how certain things never seem to filter into the mass American media, but it goes the other way, we always seem to know what is happening in your country politically, but I guess this just makes us more wordly hey????? and Australian's do heaps politically and on a foreign aid levle, of course probably not as much money is spent as is the case with America, which is obvious because we are a smaller country, but dont start making false acqusations that only American's actively do things that are of a humanitarian or foreign aid nature, again that just exemplifies that arrogance.........
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:51 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Z Edge/Spyplane/Love Muscle,
Perhaps you need to consider the possibility that people who criticise some things about America (namely American foreign policy) are motivated by something other than jealousy.
like arrogance?

Quote:
I'm not jealous of America. I don't want to make my home country (UK) more like America. I'm not sure what Americans have that I might be jealous of. Sure I'd love it if U2 were in the UK more often but if I wanted to express that then I'd say "I wish U2 would tour near my home more often" not "I'm disgusted by America's involvement in putting General Pincohet in power."

I know some people brought up the fact that they've been accused of being anti-American, which is quite relevant to this thread. I don't really understand why people assume that if someone is critical of America it automatically means they hate everything about the country.
Um why do the non-americans and the american -lib (Bush haters) find it so necessary to post 20.000 threads about "AMERICA this" or "AMERICA that"?

I am tired of it. I am a critic of what I don't like about America, I live here. One thing I was taught in my world travels to be a good diplomat to our friends was to be polite and considerate of the customs of our guests.

I'll be DAMNED if I were to visit ENGLAND and go up to locals and say "you drive funny" and "you talk like wussies". Or "you guys are weak and your military is week and your leaders are stupid cowards"

You see, that is totally unacceptable coming from an arrogant american, not the other way around though.

Quote:
I'm sure you already know my views on America's foreign policy but perhaps you don't know that I spent an exchange year in the US because I wanted to learn more about the country, perhaps you don't know that many of my favourite musicians are American or that I love American TV shows or that I'm watching an American news channel right now. I'm not anti-American, if I hated America I wouldn't listen to American music or read American literature.
listening to our music, tv, or shopping at our malls does not make you a "good neighbor" or "america friendly"

Whereas if I go to Kuwait to liberate them from Iraq, you could say I am on their side.

Quote:
I don't hate America, I just think the American government has done some very bad things in the past.
this is the type of crap comments I am talking about. Yet it is perfectly welcome here in a U2 forum.

Quote:
Tell me, when I say that Britain does something wrong, do you call me anti-British? When I say that I think Britain has behaved disgracefully towards Ireland for the last eight hundred years, am I anti-British? When I say that our higher education funding system is a disgrace, am I anti-British? Of course I'm not, and there are plenty of other criticisms I could add there, so why when I criticise America must I be accused of being anti-American?
This arguement you all always attempt to try and put up does not work for me.

I don't care what you say about your country, it obviously does not affect you and why should it me?

I would go out of my way to NOT say anything offensive about your country as not to offend you (part of good upbringing not arrogance) , yet you go out of your way to do so to me.

As usual, we americans go the extra mile to be courteous to others only for them to not reciprocate
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:53 PM   #43
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You know what, I'm tired of this crap.

z you need to change your attitude around here. I'm serious.

DISCUSS AND DEBATE IN AN ADULT MANNER!

Why the fuck is it so difficult???

If this thread hasnt calmed down when I get back its getting closed.
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Old 08-21-2002, 09:09 PM   #44
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Z edge,/spyplane, whoever you are today, this is Amanda btw, I really like you matey, but please...
Australia was the FIRST country, yes THE FIRST, to offer America its support with our military in the war against terror. Our Prime Minister was in your country and offered all the help he could give to you.
Im sure Ive said the same to Bubba before on this. America's population is a lot greater than Australia's so obviously your military power is also, therefore we may not 'appear' to be helping to the average American, but we were there and HAVE ALWAYS been there helping the States in every frigging major war.
We lost innocent men fighting your war against terror, so go tell your opinions to the wife and family of those soldiers and reporters who died, HELPING AMERICA.
Some of our troops have only just arrived home after being over there fighting, helping you guys.

We have been there for a long time helping America, there's a thing called ANZUS you might want to look up.

14 September 2001


U.S.-Australia Treaty Article IV Applies to Terrorist Attacks
ANZUS Treaty -- U.S.-Australia mutual defense treaty

The United States and Australia have concluded that Article IV of their mutual defense treaty -- the ANZUS Treaty -- "applies to the terrorist attacks on the United States," according to a September 14 White House statement.

"The tragic events of September 11, 2001 took place just one day after President Bush and Prime Minister Howard stood together in Washington, D.C. to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the U.S.-Australia alliance," the White House noted.

Following is the statement:


The White House
Office of the Press Secretary
September 14, 2001
Statement By The Press Secretary

The Governments of Australia and the United States have concluded that Article IV of their mutual defense treaty applies to the terrorist attacks on the United States.

The United States welcomes Australia's decision to join us in applying the ANZUS Treaty, which serves to reinforce the strong bonds of friendship and shared values that unite the American and Australian people. The tragic events of September 11, 2001 took place just one day after President Bush and Prime Minister Howard stood together in Washington, D.C. to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the U.S.-Australia alliance. Although our alliance with Australia was crafted under very different circumstances than exist now, the events of September 11, 2001 are a powerful reminder that the alliance and our shared commitments are no less valid today.

Australia shares our assessment of the gravity of the situation and is resolute in its commitment to work with the United States and all freedom loving people to combat international terrorism.

In the days and weeks to come, we will consult closely with our Australian allies regarding an effective response to these attacks.




Boy, get your facts straight before you start accusing a WHOLE country of not helping.
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Old 08-21-2002, 09:18 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sicy
You know what, I'm tired of this crap.

z you need to change your attitude around here. I'm serious.

DISCUSS AND DEBATE IN AN ADULT MANNER!

Why the fuck is it so difficult???

If this thread hasnt calmed down when I get back its getting closed.
My attitude?

No I don't!

IF you want to use your ELITE POWER to run me out of here, then do so...

But if you want to be fair then look at what is STILL going on in here...

NOTHING has changed in this place

STILL the same old crap

I AM sick of it

An adult would not go out of their way to intentionally insult something somebody else holds dear; out of jealousy or spite or whatever.

Perhaps I will keep my adult donation money to myself, since I am not considered an adult
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