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Old 04-20-2007, 05:25 AM   #121
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I support the strictest possible gun-control laws. Here in Saipan, civilians aren't allowed to own handguns at all--just rifles, and gun-related crimes are very rare here, even accounting for the small size of our population.

I'd support similar laws in the Mainland.

And the reason I support strict gun control laws is not because of armed criminals. It's the armed "law-abiding" citizens that I worry about, to be honest.

If the gun control laws were stricter, even a mentally ill person like Cho bent on killing, might have been prevented from getting the guns he needed to carry out his sick fantasies. Speaking as someone who has a brother who was expelled from university because of problems stemming from his schizophrenia (some rock-throwing and window breaking and threats and whatnot) I can tell you the mentally ill typically don't have the local underworld figures, from whom black market weapons can be purchased, on speed dial.

I can tell you that it worried me a lot that my brother could go down to the local Wal-Mart and buy a gun with relative ease.

And I can tell you, I was always relieved that he DIDN'T have access to guns and hoped he never would. (He never talked about killing anybody or anything, but you always worry, you know. . .The good news by the way is that he's been on medication regularly--finally--for the past two years or so and is doing much, much better. Suffice it to say I don't worry so much any more).
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Old 04-20-2007, 09:06 AM   #122
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Originally posted by maycocksean
And the reason I support strict gun control laws is not because of armed criminals. It's the armed "law-abiding" citizens that I worry about, to be honest.
These are the ones that worry me as well. Like the man here in Orange County who was pissed at some teenagers for some minor vandalism. He came storming outside with his gun, "just to scare them." One of the teenagers ended up shot and killed, and now the pathetic old man is going to prison for 2nd degree murder. I'm sure his gun made him feel safer. I sure don't feel safer knowing that any random old coot on my street is packing heat.
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:01 AM   #123
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[B]And the reason I support strict gun control laws is not because of armed criminals. It's the armed "law-abiding" citizens that I worry about, to be honest.

i'm beginning to come to this conclusion. i'm beginning to wonder if there is such a thing as a "responsible gun owner," because if you were truly responsible, why would you have a gun? is target practice so much fun that it's worth the countless deaths due to a domestic dispute and the presence of a "saturday night special?"

i know responsible drug users -- and real drugs, like cocaine -- and that sure doesn't mean i think that hard drugs should be legal.



[q] I can tell you the mentally ill typically don't have the local underworld figures, from whom black market weapons can be purchased, on speed dial.[/q]

and that's really the crux of the issue. i'm not terribly frightened of being gunned down by crossfire from a gang war. it's cops who really need to worry about dealing with genuine criminals who can get reallly bad guns. and the cops are armed. the schizophrenic who shoots up a classroom, the guy who robs a 7-11 and it goes horrible wrong, the domestic dispute that ends with a bullet to the chest -- all these things happen with legally purchased, legally owned fire arms.
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:53 AM   #124
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While we are rewriting the Constitution - let's change the establishment clause. Let's end the debate once for all - Christianity is the national religion!

People have every right to protect their family. There are too many people more than willing to come into your house and steal your money, kidnap your children, or rape your wife. Sometimes, a gun is the only real defense.

There are many, many reason America has so much violence. The availability of handguns is only part of the problem.

And I guarantee you, if a disaster strikes and bands of thugs are roaming the streets with no visible law enforcement - you will want a gun of some sort, because Krav Maga will only get you so far.
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:55 AM   #125
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While we are rewriting the Constitution - let's change the establishment clause. Let's end the debate once for all - Christianity is the national religion!

Are you being serious?
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:57 AM   #126
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Originally posted by AEON
While we are rewriting the Constitution - let's change the establishment clause. Let's end the debate once for all - Christianity is the national religion!


you know as well as i do that "right to bear arms" and "well-regulated militia" are vauge enough phrases for us all to debate their meaning.

and we change the Constitution all the time -- it's called "amending."


[q]People have every right to protect their family. There are too many people more than willing to come into your house and steal your money, kidnap your children, or rape your wife. Sometimes, a gun is the only real defense.[/q]

while this does happen, and i can see the point, i think we also have to look in aggregate -- the fact remains, if you have a gun in the house, it's more likely that you or a family member will get shot by that gun than it is that you will use it to defend your home.


[q]There are many, many reason America has so much violence. The availability of handguns is only part of the problem.[/q]

agreed, but as has been pointed out, there's violence in other countries as well. yet no one has the shooting deaths we have. no one is even close.


Quote:
And I guarantee you, if a disaster strikes and bands of thugs are roaming the streets with no visible law enforcement - you will want a gun of some sort, because Krav Maga will only get you so far.
this i can understand. but, again, we have to ask ourselves -- at what cost? 12,000 dead each year by handguns.
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:59 AM   #127
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Originally posted by AEON


People have every right to protect their family. There are too many people more than willing to come into your house and steal your money, kidnap your children, or rape your wife. Sometimes, a gun is the only real defense.

Sheesh, I almost feel bad that you are living in such a state of constant paranoia.

People only have a right to defend themselves with such force if that's what's being done to them. You cannot shoot and kill a 15 year old kid who pries open your window to reach in and nab a $20 you left on the table.

As for kidnapping of children and raping of wives, I can't recall any incidences where The Man has rightfully shot down an intruder trying to kidnap his children and/or rape his wife. I do know of half a dozen incidents in the past few years just on the southeast side of Grand Rapids where CHILDREN have shot and killed CHILDREN because they had access to lethal weapons and parents who told them it was OK to "defend" themselves. For example, a father gave his teenage kid a gun and told the kid they had the right to defend themselves, and the teenager killed another kid over $14.

I will voluntarily give up my rights to such a weapon if it means that I could save the life of a single child.
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:29 AM   #128
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Sheesh, I almost feel bad that you are living in such a state of constant paranoia.

I agree.
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Old 04-20-2007, 12:52 PM   #129
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Are you being serious?
No
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Old 04-20-2007, 12:58 PM   #130
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I will voluntarily give up my rights to such a weapon if it means that I could save the life of a single child.
Are you a mother? Do you think if you had children (if you don't) and your husband got called away to war for a year that you would feel safer with a gun in the house? Close your eyes and actually imagine a large man breaking into your back door and you hear him.

If you felt safer with a gun - is that really being paranoid? Or prepared?
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Old 04-20-2007, 01:08 PM   #131
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Originally posted by AEON


Are you a mother? Do you think if you had children (if you don't) and your husband got called away to war for a year that you would feel safer with a gun in the house? Close your eyes and actually imagine a large man breaking into your back door and you hear him.

If you felt safer with a gun - is that really being paranoid? Or prepared?


considering the fact that the presence of a firearm in a house increases the likelihood of a homocide happening in the house by a factor of 22, and when someone is home, a gun is used for protection in fewer than two percent of home invasion crimes.

if that gun kills anyone, it will probably kill someone you know and love than an intruder.

in 1998, for example, there were only 154 justifiable homicides commited with a handgun. and 8,259 murders committed with a handgun.
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Old 04-20-2007, 01:10 PM   #132
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Originally posted by AEON


Are you a mother? Do you think if you had children (if you don't) and your husband got called away to war for a year that you would feel safer with a gun in the house? Close your eyes and actually imagine a large man breaking into your back door and you hear him.

1. I'm not a mother but I used to nanny full time for four kids and they were like my own to me. Being an oldest with younger siblings who were often left in my care, I've experience my fair share of "mothering" instincts in bad situations, enough to know that I don't want that kind of responsibility right now with a baby of my own.

2. I don't know whether to be offended or laugh my ass off at the assumption that my safety is so closely correlated with the presence of my husband. Actually, I am laughing my ass off....yeah if you knew me or my husband, you'd be laughing at that too...

3. I lived for 18 years with multiple guns in my home and NEVER felt safer because of it.

4. My home WAS broken into and my family has been threatened on more than one occasion. You don't know me and you don't know where I grew up.

5. On one such occasion (a robbery of our home), the guns were stolen. Some time later, the police called because guns registered to my dad had been used in another crime. Safe, huh?


I would NEVER EVER EVER EVER allow a gun in my home if I had children. Absofuckinglutely NOT. Not on my life. Not on the life of Jesus Christ himself would I EVER create a situation like that with my OWN children.

Would I kill for my own children? Definitely so. Would I create an environment where they could kill themselves, each other, or someone else? As God is my witness, no.

If I was the type of person you presume me to be (still laughing, by the way), I'd get a Boxer dog and train it to alert bark if was really so paranoid, which I'm not.
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Old 04-20-2007, 01:14 PM   #133
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Originally posted by AEON


Are you a mother? Do you think if you had children (if you don't) and your husband got called away to war for a year that you would feel safer with a gun in the house? Close your eyes and actually imagine a large man breaking into your back door and you hear him.

If you felt safer with a gun - is that really being paranoid? Or prepared?
Or you're wahsing dishes while Timmy plays in his room. You don't hear him as he wanders into your room and begins to explore (kids find everything) and find a cool toy.

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Old 04-20-2007, 01:21 PM   #134
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^ Hey how could the kid find the gun when it was hidden behind the open bottles of medication and industrial cleaning products
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Old 04-20-2007, 01:27 PM   #135
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^ Hey how could the kid find the gun when it was hidden behind the open bottles of medication and industrial cleaning products
Have you ever met a kid that didn't love the game "take everything out of mommy's purse even though she's said not to a million times"? Medicines and cleaning products are kept in cabinets with child locks. I can't speak for everyone, but we've had to use child locks even for our cats!

If the gun is kept disassembled and unloaded in a locked case, doesn't that entirely defeat the purpose of being "prepared" for a big man who's going to storm in and rape us?
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