It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution.....

[A_Wanderer]

Well, as an aside, there are many in the anti-gun camp (am assuming Democrats) that seemed to be perfectly willing to legalize drugs because they think they are unbanable.

What a great upping of antes; faggotry, guns, porn, blasphemy and drugs; please be liberal with all so as to avoid hypocrisy.

 

[Zoots]

Haha solid post, anitram!

 

[Snowlock]

I love the talk of these magical law-abiding citizens who don't abuse guns.

Guy goes crazy, catches wife in bed with another guy, loses his mind, picks up the gun in his garage and shoots her. He used to be law abiding. (And btw, these cases aren't rare, I could cite a dozen just off the top of my head)

Stupid teenager and his 3 buddies go to a 7-11, they're horsing around, decide to be dumb and steal a 6-pack of beer, it goes wrong, one of them happens to have a gun, shoots the cashier. No previous history of criminality, no previous convictions, hey, maybe it was his buddy's gun - he just happened to be holding it.

9 year old boy finds one of his father's guns in the basement, plays around with it, accidentally shoots his sister and the family dog. No history of criminal behaviour.

Guy owns house backing onto ravine, hates how neighbourhood cats and dogs wander on to his property. Sees a beagle taking a dump, picks up his gun to teach it a lesson and misses, shooting the mother of 3 who happened to be walking the dog. No history of criminal behaviour.

Guy's business is crumbling, he's got debt collectors showing up, he's under stress, they're relentless, he orders them out of his store, they refuse, he picks up a gun and shoots. No history of criminal behaviour.

Guy's wife tells him she's leaving him and the kids and is going to clean him out and by the way, his dick is small and she's repulsed by looking at him. He's enraged, picks up his hunting rifle, shoots her, the inlaws who live on the main floor of their house and then takes his own life.

Everyone is law abiding initially.

I love the talk of the magical innocents who oops tripped and fell and shot a store clerk in the face while emptying the cash register. I don't think I could equate and armed robber as a "stupid teen".

 

[Vincent Vega]

If you're dissing the consitution I'm not sure what to say as it's pretty much universally recognized as the strongest blueprint to set up a country ever created by people a lot smarter than you or I. In fact, your own consitution was based in large part on ours (assuming you're in germany)

I don't think I need to defend it as its success pretty much speaks for itself.

I'm not dissing anything, no worries. The Constitution didn't come out of the blue as well, but that's not the topic.
The thin is, whether our constitution, nor yours is meant to stay the same no matter what happens.
And the forefathers never meant that there words are to be set in stone. It wouldn't be considered an attack by them when two centuries ago people thought other a single part of th constitution and deemed it worthful to change it there.

 

[Vincent Vega]

I love the talk of the magical innocents who oops tripped and fell and shot a store clerk in the face while emptying the cash register. I don't think I could equate and armed robber as a "stupid teen".

Why did he shoot?
Because he knew the store owner owned a gun, was nervous as hell and trigger happy as one could be so he decided to shoot when the store owner made a move.
One additional unnecessary death.

 

[Zoots]

I love the talk of the magical innocents who oops tripped and fell and shot a store clerk in the face while emptying the cash register. I don't think I could equate and armed robber as a "stupid teen".

Forget the armed robber for a moment. I think what anitram is trying to say is that there are so many cases of "stupid teens" (more like stupid people in the heat of the moment) mis-using guns! This would not be a problem if the right to own a gun is taken away!

 

[anitram]

I love the talk of the magical innocents who oops tripped and fell and shot a store clerk in the face while emptying the cash register. I don't think I could equate and armed robber as a "stupid teen".

I don't care what you want to call him.

But sure, fixate on that if you'd like. Certainly distracts from the point that you only have to be "law abiding" at the point of purchase.

 

[Irvine511]

faggotry, guns, porn, blasphemy and drugs;

how dare you put the beautiful love i make on a list with guns.

the others are quite alright by me.

 

[A_Wanderer]

how dare you put the beautiful love i make on a list with guns.

the others are quite alright by me.

It all falls under a broad banner of liberties as much as hate speech and Jackass.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Why did he shoot?
Because he knew the store owner owned a gun, was nervous as hell and trigger happy as one could be so he decided to shoot when the store owner made a move.
One additional unnecessary death.

And a person responsible for a very bad decision; guns don't make people do stupid things.

 

[Zoots]

And a person responsible for a very bad decision; guns don't make people do stupid things.

No but they help in the stupidity!

 

[Zoots]

Or to put it in a better way, they help stupid accidents become irreversible tragedies.

 

[Vincent Vega]

And a person responsible for a very bad decision; guns don't make people do stupid things.

His very stupid decision was to rob the store.
Still, his knowledge of the gun owner owning a gun together with the high adrenaline and stress he is under he is more trigger happy.
That's very dangerous.

I don't say he wasn't stupid, I just say that a gun isn't improve your safety as some might like to think.

Not even considering ricochets or a bullet going through the victim and killing the person behind, or someone who can't handle the gun and misses the target etc.

 

[A_Wanderer]

All of which are valid points against commiting crimes. Statistically it seems that "accidental" gun deaths are below cars and swimming pools - it doesn't detract from the tragedy of individual cases but it isn't like most registered weapons end up killing someone.

Sports shooting is an example of recreational gun use.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Well, I don't advocate a full ban of weapons.

Stricter laws would help as well.

I've got nothing against sport shooting. Best thing is, these facilities even provide some storage possibilties to keep your own house gun free.

I would have a horrible feeling having a gun in my house, even if it was in a vault, when I have children playing.

 

[phillyfan26]

Wouldn't part of the point of banning guns be to show that we have a government that wants to crack down on gun violence? Wasn't the only point of guns in the first place to defend oneself against British troops? If one, single, solitary, would-be murder due to guns does not occur because they are illegal and harder to obtain, is it not then doing its job? (And this certainly isn't to say that it couldn't save more.) I think the right to bear arms in 2007 just doesn't make sense.

 

[deep]

Miss America 1944 takes a different kind of beauty shot

Story Highlights
• Venus Ramey, 82, confronted man on her farm in south-central Kentucky
• She shot out his tires to hold him for police, who charged man with trespassing
• In 1944, beauty queen won pageant with singing, dancing, comedic talents

WAYNESBURG, Kentucky (AP) -- Miss America 1944 has a talent that probably has never appeared on a beauty pageant stage: She fired a handgun to shoot out a vehicle's tires and stop an intruder.

Venus Ramey, 82, confronted a man on her farm in south-central Kentucky last week after she saw her dog run into a storage building where thieves had previously made off with old farm equipment.

Ramey said the man told her he would leave. "I said, 'Oh, no you won't,' and I shot their tires so they couldn't leave," Ramey said.

She had to balance on her walker as she pulled out a snub-nosed .38-caliber handgun.

"I didn't even think twice. I just went and did it," she said. "If they'd even dared come close to me, they'd be 6 feet under by now."

Ramey then flagged down a passing motorist, who called 911.

Curtis Parrish of Ohio was charged with misdemeanor trespassing, Deputy Dan Gilliam said. The man's hometown wasn't immediately available. Three other people were questioned but were not arrested.

After winning the pageant with her singing, dancing and comedic talents, Ramey sold war bonds and her picture was adorned on a B-17 bomber that flew missions over Germany in World War II, according to the Miss America Web site.

Ramey lived in Cincinnati for several years and was instrumental in helping rejuvenate Over-the-Rhine historic buildings. She returned to Kentucky in 1990 to live on her farm.

"I'm trying to live a quiet, peaceful life and stay out of trouble, and all it is, is one thing after another," she said.

 

[Dreadsox]

What was the name of that Tom Cruise thought police movie in which they arrested people before they committed the crime?

The posts in here remind me of that.

 

[deep]

minority report

 

[MrBrau1]

what do the gun crime statistics of the UK and Australia tell us?

Well, given the common consensus is that if someone wants to get a gun and kill people, they will do so, whether guns are legally available or not, their is only 1 conclusion.

People in the UK and Australia simply have a lower desire to kill one another than Americans.

The fact handguns are illegal in these countries has no bearing on the gun statistics: remeber, if a criminal wants to get a gun, he'll do so, whether through legal or illegal means. If the desire is there, the black market will provide. Simple economics.

Criminals will find a way. They can't be stopped.
It's not even worth the effort to try and stop them. They're invincible.

 

[LJT]

A lot of this really is so incomprehensible...I don't think anyone is even considering an outright ban on guns right now...just stronger gun control laws, a rigorous mental health check, and police check and then a substantial waiting period of a few months, nationwide.

That alone would likely cut down gun related crime, those controls are just common sense, the laxness of the laws in some states seems to border on stupidity. It would take a long, long time to phase guns out completely in the states, hence it is just too impractical for an outright ban.

 

[Greenlight]

Well, given the common consensus is that if someone wants to get a gun and kill people, they will do so, whether guns are legally available or not, their is only 1 conclusion.

People in the UK and Australia simply have a lower desire to kill one another than Americans.

The fact handguns are illegal in these countries has no bearing on the gun statistics: remeber, if a criminal wants to get a gun, he'll do so, whether through legal or illegal means. If the desire is there, the black market will provide. Simple economics.

Criminals will find a way. They can't be stopped.
It's not even worth the effort to try and stop them. They're invincible.

Well cultural differences may go some way towards explaining differing levels of crime rates - Switzerland for example as a high level of gun ownership but a low crime rate, but I don't agree that those hell bent on going on a killing spree will always find a way to get guns whether they're legal or not.

It stands to reason that in a society where guns are illegal it is much much more difficult to get your hands on one and most people wouldn't know where to start. Criminals may and do find a way on the black market if they have the right contacts but I think as maycocksean said it earlier, someone who's mentally deranged would find it pretty difficult. The UK has had a fair number of nutcases in recent years who've killed a number of complete strangers but none have used guns - they've only had access to knives, axes etc but the death toll would have been far higher if they had used guns as well.

I suppose that one of the problems in the US though is that even if tighter gun controls were put in force, because there are so many guns already in circulation that it would still be relatively easy for those wanting to get their hands on one to do so.

 

[maycocksean]

What was the name of that Tom Cruise thought police movie in which they arrested people before they committed the crime?

The posts in here remind me of that.

How so?

 

[maycocksean]

I love the talk of the magical innocents who oops tripped and fell and shot a store clerk in the face while emptying the cash register. I don't think I could equate and armed robber as a "stupid teen".

How about addressing the most difficult of the scenarios on anitram's list, rather than the easiest one to reframe as yet another criminal.

 

[maycocksean]

I'm personally not advocating an outright ban on guns (though I don't think that would be a bad thing). I'd be happy with just stricter gun control laws. That should be acceptable to most Americans I would imagine.

 

[AEON]

A lot of this really is so incomprehensible...I don't think anyone is even considering an outright ban on guns right now...just stronger gun control laws, a rigorous mental health check, and police check and then a substantial waiting period of a few months, nationwide.

I would accept this. Especially the mental health check. We should probably run the same test before allowing people into the voting booth.





....just kidding ....sort of...

 

[A_Wanderer]

What was the name of that Tom Cruise thought police movie in which they arrested people before they committed the crime?

The posts in here remind me of that.

Entirely different things Dread, entirely different; anybody with more than two functioning brain cells understands that the second somebody is able to own a gun they are potential killers, and that potential is too much of a risk so one way or another it has to be neutralised.

 

[Dreadsox]

Entirely different things Dread, entirely different; anybody with more than two functioning brain cells understands that the second somebody is able to own a gun they are potential killers, and that potential is too much of a risk so one way or another it has to be neutralised.

I guess I am short two!

 

[Dreadsox]

Exactly, that's why this thread is cracking me up. I mean just look at the reason this thread was started.

2 legal guns bought by a law-abiding citizen.

yet, from watching the news last night I was under the impression that he should not have been allowed to buy the gun once the court had made its ruling on him two years ago. Somehow, he was able to.

 

[deep]

nevermind