Is Sadaam dead or alive? - U2 Feedback

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Old 04-04-2003, 10:53 AM   #1
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Is Sadaam dead or alive?

Well, apparently he has risen from the dead 'cause there's new video today with him speaking and referring specifically to events that happened (I believe yesterday) within 10 hours prior to the broadcast of his speech.

This whole argument over whether he is dead or alive is so f**king stupid. It reminds me of the ridiculousness of the orange terror alerts.

ABC News actually had an "analyst" looking at the tape and making comments such as "Sadaam doesn't typically use a 'swimming double,' but he does use a 'speaking double' blah blah blah. Total nonsense.
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Old 04-04-2003, 11:29 AM   #2
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Dead or alive, Saddam's behavior is bizzare.

I heard an interesting analogy this morning. When Hitler was bombed in April 1944, he was on the radio two hours later to broadcast the message "they tried to kill me but I am too strong for them..."

Saddam, on the other hand, disappears for two weeks, then shows up for the ackward message which appears to be made recently.
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Old 04-04-2003, 11:43 AM   #3
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True, nb, he does disappear and reappear. I just don't get the whole point of trying to prove if he is dead or alive based on broadcasts and videotape. If the U.S. Military wants him dead (which I don't think is necessarily true), they will not know he's dead until they have physical evidence (i.e. his dead body).

In my opinion, all this speculation about Sadaam's videotaped speeches is better suited for the tabloids.
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Old 04-04-2003, 11:48 AM   #4
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Pub, there is the big political question of "who's in charge?" If Saddam is dead, who has authority to command the troops or accept a surrender? Who is ordering the use of civilian shields or denying the Red Cross access to POWs?

Granted, these questions are not examined as part of the "dead or alive" analysis. You are correct that the issue seems to be left at the tabloid level - a level everyone can understand - but, as you point out, doesn't really get us anywhere.
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Old 04-04-2003, 11:49 AM   #5
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I think this speculation is a bit silly also. The point is, is he in charge of the government and the country? How much of the country does he control? Dead or alive seems to be beside the point.
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Old 04-04-2003, 12:12 PM   #6
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This speculation was part of US propaganda - they hoped to demoralize Iraqis with this tactic - obviousely it failed (like the "Blitzkrieg" and the "shock effect" + mass surender + flowers for the soldiers)

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Old 04-04-2003, 12:20 PM   #7
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Of course, it's propaganda. The only explanation. How about this: The Coalition wants Saddam dead or out of power. When you bomb a bunker where intelligence sources say he is and then he doesn't appear "Live" on tv to speak in 2 weeks, then it's an obvious question to ask. Please lay off the propaganda bullshit.

p.s. - it's funny, no other countries could say if he was dead or alive either. In fact Chirac said it was questionable if he was still in power. Does that mean everyone is in on the "propaganda?"
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Old 04-04-2003, 12:20 PM   #8
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I guess news of Saddam's death would have positive impacts to US morale - but the story was not controlled by the US government. And Saddam certainly did his part to keep the story alive.
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Old 04-04-2003, 12:31 PM   #9
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I heard an interesting assessment of the situation on tv this morning by an iraqi-canadian.
He said that though saddam may be alive he is no longer in control. Somehow or another the military now have almost all the control and the chances of them giving it back to saddam even if he does get all better are slim.
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Old 04-04-2003, 12:35 PM   #10
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The question we have to ask ourselves is, what does Saddam has top gain with this behaviour? Giving a speech to prove he's alive after every big military action from the 'coalition' ( ), could blow up in his face, because his real death would be obvious because of the absence of such a speech.

It could also be that he's in hiding or on the move and he only has limited access to his media. I don't know, I'm just guessing.
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Old 04-04-2003, 12:46 PM   #11
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It's been questioned if the military would turn on Saddam. That's the reason that the "normal" Republican Gaurd can't be in Baghdad. He is paranoid they will overthrow him, and the "special" Rep. Guard is close in Baghdad to protect him from being overthrown by his own people. It's strange to see someone that can put people in such deep fear, yet still be so paranoid.
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Old 04-04-2003, 01:13 PM   #12
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recall Stalin
Would make saddam look like a girl scout
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Old 04-04-2003, 01:22 PM   #13
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womanfish:

As i said before it was a good idea to bomb that bunker, it would have shortened the war. Saddam was a few hours later on TV and afik mentioned the time the war was beginning -> he was alive.
Then they thought about "well maybe it's a double" lots of crime experts figgured out in a few hours that it's the real saddam to 99%. then they thought pretaped but it would really be coincidence if he would know the time before the strike. Also the way he appeared (scared) dosn't tell me it was prerecorded - he can make "better" propaganda than this.

-> good idea but it didn't work

After that there started new rumours (like "we found someone who knows saddam and says that it's not him" and i guess that was to weaken the morale of the iraqi army and to push the morale of the alies - which is ok, but still it's propaganda (like the other propaganda peaces i mentioned above or the "saddam is killing kids in hospitals from Iraq War I)

And of course sometimes other countries (or media in other countries) believes propaganda stuff to - masterpeace of US propaganda was the faked photos of saddams troups at the saudi border which showed the saudis how dangerous saddam was and gave the US military the chance to place their troops in Saudi Arabia.

Propaganda was allways part of warfare, sometimes propaganda is more powerful than 100.000 soldiers, but i'm still suprised how many people believe that stuff.

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Old 04-04-2003, 01:53 PM   #14
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yes propaganda is powerful - I'm sure there are Iraqi people that believe the Information Minister when he says that no Coalition troops are anywhere near Baghdad. I just think that this "propaganda" was based in reality and was a fairly logical question. So in my mind it wasn't really what I would classify as propaganda, but just trying to find out the facts of his whereabouts.
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Old 04-04-2003, 01:53 PM   #15
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Here's a copy of the AP article.

TV ADDRESS SUGGESTS SADAAM MAY BE ALIVE
BY John J Lumkin

WASHINGTON (April 4) - References to a downed U.S. helicopter in Saddam Hussein's video message Friday suggest it was made after the strike aimed at killing him, a U.S. intelligence official said. The message was some of the strongest evidence yet that the Iraqi president survived the attack.

The official stopped short of saying the video message, which was broadcast on Iraqi television Friday, provided conclusive proof he was still alive and in command of the Iraqi regime.

But Saddam's reference to a villager shooting down a U.S. AH-64 Apache Longbow helicopter matched claims by other Iraqi officials, which first aired in the hours after the March 24 downing of an Apache in battle south of Baghdad.

In his address, Saddam said, among other things, ''Perhaps you remember the valiant Iraqi peasant and how he shot down an American Apache with an old weapon.''

Iraq claimed downing two helicopters that day but U.S. military officials said only one was lost. Whether the helicopter went down to hostile fire or a mechanical failure is unclear.

The two crew members were taken prisoner by Iraqis, and their pictures later aired on Iraqi television.

Iraqi television has broadcast a number of speeches and messages from Saddam since March 19, when U.S. forces opened the war by striking at a residential compound where Saddam was believed to be sleeping.

But none of those messages contained the kind of specific references - akin to holding up that day's newspaper - that would confirm they were recorded after the war's start. Intelligence officials said they had some information that Saddam prerecorded a number of speeches to air during the war.

The intelligence official, discussing the situation only on grounds of anonymity, said it was possible that even Friday's speech - including a precognitive reference to a downed helicopter - was recorded before the war, but acknowledged it was more likely recorded since March 24.

The whereabouts of Saddam and his sons, also key players in the Iraqi regime, are unknown to U.S. intelligence.

AP-NY-04-04-03 1111EST

Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.
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