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Old 03-15-2005, 03:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


-showing pornography to minor boys
-serving liquor to minor boys
-having alarms all over your house/bedrooms to be notified if people are approaching
-questionable eccentric activity with animals

Irvine,
need i go on or do you think catholic priests who abused boys were probably railroaded as well?

thx,
db9
firstly, it is not my intention to defend michael jackson. i don't care if he's innocent or guilty.

however, you do need to go on. your first two points are allegations, they have not yet been proved in a court of law. even in an America with Nancy fucking Grace glaring out at us from our TV screens, her eyes ablaze with righteous indignation, we are still innocent until proven guilty.

alarms are not illegal, and i've heard nothing about eccentric activity with animals.

firstly, catholic priests also abuse girls, but that's another thread. do i think they were railroaded? possibly some priests are innocent victims, probably the majority of the accused are guilty. that's up for a court of law to decide, not me. but last i checked no catholic priests were in possession of the Beatles' catalogue.

all i'm saying is that there's a huge financial reward to the destruction of Michael Jackson.
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Old 03-15-2005, 03:32 PM   #17
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I am pleased to say I have not followed every detail of this tawdry case.


But, a few things do not ring true.

I believe the accusers claim that they looked a 4 of 5 porno sites suspicious.
Has anybody ever looked at just 4 or 5 porn sites?
Once you start looking hours and days fly by in a blur.


Jackson supposedly did only a couple of groping things.
Again pedophiles have a patterned of a lot of repeated behavior.

Jackson is bizarre. His behavior is wrong.

The prosecution’s case is NOT strong.
The witnesses are not very credible and Jackson stands a real chance of being found not guilty, because of “reasonable doubt.”
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Old 03-15-2005, 03:34 PM   #18
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This issue will be resolved on re-direct by the Prosecution.

I guess the question to ask is: would the boy be willing to open up and discuss with the dean about his alleged sexual molestation. Saying nothing happened may have been a defensive mechanism.
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Old 03-15-2005, 03:55 PM   #19
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Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel


Agreed. And it sickens me that people might actually be lying about this stuff, because in case those idiots who are lying aren't aware of this, child molestation is a very serious charge. It's kinda like the women who, for some crazy reason, lie about being raped-they make a mockery of a very serious, hurtful, damaging act, and they make it hard for people to believe someone who does happen to be telling the truth. It's just so insanely stupid.

Angela
I agree with you completely Angela - but just wanted to put in my tuppenceworth on this: I went to school with a girl who told me that she had been raped, at a specific time. It ended up that this was not true.

However, she HAD been raped - but it was when she was a young girl, by her father, but had blocked it out completely. It ended up that he had done this to her sister and brother as well. All the evidence pointed to this having actually happened, rather than being a case of "false memory syndrome", particularly as her elder siblings had not managed to block it out and had just lived with it as best they could.

My classmate had no idea why on earth she told that lie. We discussed the situation a few years later. Once I knew about what she had been through as a kid, the lying made sense to me, in a weird sort of way.

All I'm saying is that these situations are not always as cut and dry as they appear. Like you, I get angry and upset when I read about false accusations of such a horrendous, soul-destroying crime. What makes it worse is that here in the UK, only around 7% of rape cases result in conviction... is our so-called "justice" system that convinced that 93% of women are lying? I don't fucking think so. It's disgusting and vile.

ANYWAY I digress. The more I see of the Michael Jackson case, the more saddening it appears.
Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

It's sad that a man so talented like MJ could trash himself with cosmetic surgery and never be happy with himself. I don't know what to say about him arriving in court late with "back pains" in pajamas, whether it's true or it's all drama. I think it was damaging for the defense.

As far as his fame, I'm sure the first child molestation accusation was definately a cause of him losing it. He was on top of the world before it. Now, he's only hitting 2 million an album, and it makes him look foolish when attacking his record company. I think he has a hard time accepting that he's no longer "the king", and that people like Timberlake are making millions and millions by imitating him. He has a lot of bills to pay off, and the Beatles catalogue is probably his only hope.
Whether he did it or not (and I sincerely hope not, obviously, for the sake of all concerned) it is all such a mess, and whatever the results, lives have been ruined here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Great point. I'm sure this woman was aware that Jackson was an accused child molester to begin with. What was in her head at the time is beyond me.
That's possibly the most sensible comment I've seen today. Damn good point.
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Old 03-15-2005, 05:24 PM   #20
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I don't believe that M.J. could get through a day without a dozen people's help... were they so cowed by his money and fame that they let him do whatever he pleased, no matter how damaging? Where were this emotionally retarded man's keepers when he was sleeping with boys?
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Old 03-15-2005, 06:28 PM   #21
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I think he is a few french fries short of a happy meal. I think he is an idiot for even coming close to getting himself in trouble for this.

I think he will be found innocent.
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Old 03-15-2005, 06:50 PM   #22
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There may be a harder impact when his former "victim/boytoy" from several years back comes to testify; he will identify the same pedophiliac pattern that Michael recently demonstrated and yes, it will be admitted that Michael paid him off just to avoid a trial...that may speak volumns.....
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Old 03-15-2005, 08:10 PM   #23
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It has always bothered me that people will instinctively reach for the guilty brush and paint him with that. Like anyone though, I'd have no interest in defending him if it were ever found to be true.

Sally Cinnamon and others who have posted about false accusations and damaging lies and all that...I went to school with a girl, who began our school years as well rounded and normal as anyone else. By the time we were in year 10, she began changing. She was heading ofr trouble, hated authority, and rebelled. Not in so obvious ways, but there was trouble brewing. She finally ran away one night and got herself a safe place in a local youth refuge. The next week, she began claims that her stepfather had raped her. Her stepfather was a science teacher at our school. I think few knew what was going on, but I knew her and so heard most of this from her first hand and from subsequent interviews with the school. It was all escalating. Problem was, she was lying. The lie was so absolutely damaging to so many people. Her mother, her sister, her stepfather, everyone who knew them and knew about the claims had seen or witnessed what this can do. Lives ruined because of issues unrelated to her and her stepfather. Lives are ruined by molestation, but everyone needs to tread very carefully when finding the truth. We cant help but judge and decide guilt. I think it's human nature, especially when we dont want to take the risk of doubt over such abhorrent claims.
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Old 03-15-2005, 08:11 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by sallycinnamon78
I agree with you completely Angela - but just wanted to put in my tuppenceworth on this: I went to school with a girl who told me that she had been raped, at a specific time. It ended up that this was not true.

However, she HAD been raped - but it was when she was a young girl, by her father, but had blocked it out completely. It ended up that he had done this to her sister and brother as well. All the evidence pointed to this having actually happened, rather than being a case of "false memory syndrome", particularly as her elder siblings had not managed to block it out and had just lived with it as best they could.

My classmate had no idea why on earth she told that lie. We discussed the situation a few years later. Once I knew about what she had been through as a kid, the lying made sense to me, in a weird sort of way.

All I'm saying is that these situations are not always as cut and dry as they appear. Like you, I get angry and upset when I read about false accusations of such a horrendous, soul-destroying crime. What makes it worse is that here in the UK, only around 7% of rape cases result in conviction... is our so-called "justice" system that convinced that 93% of women are lying? I don't fucking think so. It's disgusting and vile.

ANYWAY I digress. The more I see of the Michael Jackson case, the more saddening it appears.
Thanks for pointing that out-you're certainly right, sometimes traumatic events are blocked from people's memories and resurface later and things like that, and that's certainly not any fault of their own, so I would totally understand confusion on their part and stuff like that. I didn't mean to make it sound so black and white-basically, I just frown upon any woman who never was actually raped claiming such for whatever reason, but I think most people would frown upon that anyway, so... But yeah, thanks for bringing that situation up, that certainly plays a factor, too.

Back to Michael Jackson...also agree with you about how sad this is in general-and I'm not even the world's biggest fan of his music. I can't imagine how crazy this situation must be for those who are big fans of his music-they're more used to seeing him on court shows than they are on music channels and everything now. And they want to defend him and support him, obviously, but at the same time, if any evidence does come about that proves him guilty...I can imagine that'd probably upset a lot of his fans. I know if one of my favorite artists were found guilty of something like this, it'd disappoint me greatly, obviously.

Angela
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Old 03-15-2005, 10:22 PM   #25
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I just watched that VH1 special "MJ's secret childhood" and through it you can really understand where his behavior stems from.

Several questions about him have daunted me for a while and by watching this I have come up with a few conclusions of my own.

My first question was: why does he keep setting himself up by putting boys in his bed? There was this segment in the show that talked about his ego and about he had become a rebel as a result of his supressed childhood and his father despondent figure. They said that Michael through his actions said "You can't tell me what to do, I'll just bring more 14 year old boys to my house". That tiny little tid-bit of information in my eyes explained why the whole pajama thing and showing off late. Michael has an ego of epic proportions and doesn't like to be told what to do ....anymore (may I remind you his childhood was encompassed by his father tyranic figure).

My other question was why all the changes and the seclusion. If you knew little about Michael's past and how he would pretend to be asleep as an 11 year old while his older brothers - and his father, mind you - had sex with countless groupies on the road. I can't imagine what effect watching your father and brothers have sex with other women can have on such a young boy.

I really hope he didn't do it and that he doesn't get convicted. That would just be the final straw on a human being who has led such a troubled life. Nobody deserves that.

Hopefully, Michael, the truth shall set you free.
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Old 03-16-2005, 05:52 AM   #26
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I honestly don't know, and quite frankly I don't feel a need to know. It's something that's happening to someone who happens to be famous. It's obvious that MJ is a person who's never lived in the real world, doesn't know what that's like, and this fascinates some people. If he's guilty, OK, if he's not, OK, let him get on with his life.
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Old 03-16-2005, 08:02 AM   #27
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I don't think everyone could have lied. There's just too much evidence and too many different stories from people who never knew each other. Something weird happened. I also don't think anyone would be stupid enough to file a false claim knowing they'd be the ones in jail if they were found out.

Quote:
Originally posted by Do Miss America
Admitting to sleeping with several minor boys is very damning.

To be accused more than once pretty damning.

To have more than one minor accuse him of serving them alcohol is pretty damning.

But does it make him a child molestor? No.

Does it make him a creep? Yes

Is he child molestor? We may never know.
Do I think he did these things? YES

Do I think he's a child molester? NO

Is he guilty? Technically, but I don't think he belongs in jail. He needs help, and to be kept away from strange kids.

What I think happened is that in his own mind, he doesn't see anything wrong with it, that it's just "love" so when people say he'd never hurt a child, they're right- he wouldn't. In his mind, it's just 'love' and there's nothing wrong with love. But there is something wrong with his mind, and that is the problem here
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Old 03-16-2005, 08:37 AM   #28
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I used to be convinced he was guilty, but I'm not so sure anymore - at least not in this particular instance. He certainly does need psychiatric help, though.
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Old 03-16-2005, 01:24 PM   #29
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The truth...

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Old 03-16-2005, 01:37 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


firstly, it is not my intention to defend michael jackson. i don't care if he's innocent or guilty.

firstly, catholic priests also abuse girls, but that's another thread. do i think they were railroaded? possibly some priests are innocent victims, probably the majority of the accused are guilty. that's up for a court of law to decide, not me. but last i checked no catholic priests were in possession of the Beatles' catalogue.

all i'm saying is that there's a huge financial reward to the destruction of Michael Jackson.
if micheal were innocent he would of cleared his good name and honor at any expense.

In the first case he settled, like Kobe Now he's broke and can't settle.


And its not normal to have warning alarms in certain parts of your mansion unless youre not wanting to get caught at something -perhaps in compormising postions w/young boys.

Look Irvine the man is a fruitcake and if you want to be an apologist for him, and talk in legalese -that's your preogative, knock yourself out.

I'm not convinced.

peace,
db9
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