Iraq out of control?

[STING2]

Bullshit

I live in a predominately Rep rural area. Many of my friends are voting for W because he's the Rep candidate. Do they pay attention to any issues or even many watch the news? No they just blindly follow their party into the pits of Hell!

There are many people in this forum as well as around the country that pay attention to the issues and are going to be voting for Bush in November! On the other hand, it appears most people who are not voting for Bush are voting for ABB. 90% of the Delegates at the Democratic Convention had opposite views on Iraq than John Kerry.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I thought that 100% of those at the Dem convention had opposite views on Iraq than John Kerry.

 

[DrTeeth]

Key Bush Assertions About Iraq in Dispute

Bush touted preparations for national elections in January, saying Iraq's electoral commission is up and running and told Americans on Saturday that "United Nations electoral advisers are on the ground in Iraq."

He said nearly 100,000 "fully trained and equipped" Iraqi soldiers, police officers and other security personnel are already at work, and that would rise to 125,000 by the end of this year.

And he promised more than $9 billion will be spent on reconstruction contracts in Iraq over the next several months

But many of these assertions have met with skepticism from key lawmakers, congressional aides and experts, and Pentagon documents, given to lawmakers and obtained by Reuters, paint a more complicated picture

The documents show that of the nearly 90,000 currently in the police force, only 8,169 have had the full eight-week academy training. Another 46,176 are listed as "untrained," and it will be July 2006 before the administration reaches its new goal of a 135,000-strong, fully trained police force.

Six Army battalions have had "initial training," while 57 National Guard battalions, 896 soldiers in each, are still being recruited or "awaiting equipment." Just eight Guard battalions have reached "initial (operating) capability," and the Pentagon acknowledged the Guard's performance has been "uneven."

Training has yet to begin for the 4,800-man civil intervention force, which will help counter a deadly insurgency. And none of the 18,000 border enforcement guards have received any centralized training to date, despite earlier claims they had, according to Democrats on the U.S. House of Representatives Appropriations Committee.

They estimated that 22,700 Iraqi personnel have received enough basic training to make them "minimally effective at their tasks," in contrast to the 100,000 figure cited by Bush.

 

[Klaus]

US asks Great Britain to move 650 of their soldiers to Baghdad because they don't have enough troops to fight the Iraqi resistance.
Michael Howard (tories) said that - if they send their soldiers to baghdad they should not be under a US command.

A map of Global Security from September 2004 shows Iraq
-Northern Iraq (US led ocupation)
-Central Iraq (US led ocupation)
-Southeast Iraq (Multinational ocupation)
-Southeast Iraq (British ocupation)
The Oilfields of iraq are marked yellow.
West of red line they say that the coalition forces are loosing control.

At a survey of 655 US soldiers serving in Iraq and their families 62% answered that George W. didn't send enough troops to Iraq, 59% say that the unexperienced National Guard has bin sent to often to the front-line and 60% said that they were properly trained and Equiped for this war in Iraq.

 

[A_Wanderer]

That same poll that you reference (University of Pennsylvania's National Annenberg Election Survey of US military personnel and their families) found this too.

"U.S. troops and their families have a more positive impression of their commander-in-chief and a more upbeat attitude about both Iraq and the United States than the general public does...

"Sixty-seven percent of respondents said they approved of the way President Bush was doing his job, compared with 49 percent in a sample of the general public collected during the same period.

"Similarly, 69 percent of survey respondents said they had a favorable opinion of the president, while just 29 percent had a favorable opinion of his Democratic opponent, Sen. John Kerry. That compared to a nationwide favorability rating of 49 percent for Bush and 44 percent for Kerry."

 

[deep]

U.S. Raids Kill Family of 6 in Rebel-Held Iraqi City
Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:42 AM ET

By Yasser Faisal

FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - U.S. air strikes killed a family of six in an attack meant for fighters loyal to a self-declared al Qaeda ally, while one of the world's largest aid agencies suspended operations in Iraq after its manager was kidnapped.

Reuters television footage showed men chanting "There is no God but Allah!" as they carried the body of the father through the rubble of the razed family home in the rebel-held town of Falluja Wednesday.

"Is this the gift that (interim Prime Minister) Iyad Allawi is giving to the people of Falluja?" asked one man, pointing to the small bodies of two of the children lying in the trunk of a car. "Every day they strike Fallujah."

 

[deep]

843 ex-soldiers fail to report for Army duty


WASHINGTON (AP) -- More than 800 former soldiers have failed to comply with Army orders to get back in uniform and report for duty in Iraq or Afghanistan, the Army said Friday. That is more than one-third of the total who were told to report to a mobilization station by October 17.

Three weeks ago the number stood at 622 amid talk that any who refused to report for duty could be declared Absent Without Leave. Refusing to report for duty normally would lead to AWOL charges, but the Army is going out of its way to resolve these cases as quietly as possible.

In all, 4,166 members of the Individual Ready Reserve have received mobilization orders since July 6, of which 2,288 were to have reported by October 17. The others are to report in coming weeks and months.

Of those due to have reported by now, 1,445 have done so, but 843 have neither reported nor asked for a delay or exemption. That no-show rate of 37 percent is roughly in line with the one-third rate the Army had forecast when it began the mobilization to fill positions in regular and Reserve units. By comparison, the no-show total of 622 three weeks ago equated to a 35 percent rate.

Of the 843, the Army has had follow-up contact with 383 and is seeking to resolve their cases, according to figures made public Friday. For the 460 others, "We are still working to establish positive contact," the Army said. Some may not have received the mailed orders.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Iraq has apparently only gotten worse and worse ever since the fall of the regime - incidently isn't it bad news that sells papers.

I agree. The peacemaking progress we have made is rarely seen on the news. There are actually Iraqis out there who are greatful for what we're doing, and for what we have done. And obviously, there are Iraqis who feel that terrorism and Jihad are worth dying for.

This does not mean that we shouldn't report bad news, obviously. We do need to know the truth, and I feel that it lies in between what the news is showing, and what the troops are telling us. We should not rely so much on politics for information. As many conservatives still believe we've done everything right, whatever man. Same thing with some of the liberals who feel the need to spend all their time elaborating on the lies that the president has told us. Politics are way too slanted, no matter who you're listening to.

 

[deep]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_shooting_in_tal_afar/html/1.stm

 

[A_Wanderer]

Perhaps the whole story?

US soldiers in Iraq approach a car after opening fire when it failed to stop at a checkpoint. Despite warning shots it continued to drive towards their dusk patrol in Tal Afar on 18 January.

Inside the car were an Iraqi family of seven. The mother and father were killed but their five children in the backseat survived, one with a non-life threatening wound.

As the children get out of the car one of them screams, her hands covered in blood...

The injured child is given first-aid by a US soldier...

...as is his sister...

...before being taken to a local hospital...

...with the rest of his family.

A soldier carries one of the children into the hospital while an older sister carries her brother.

Doctors rush the children inside to ensure no-one else is wounded.

At the checkpoint a US soldier examines the car.

A US military statement said troops trying to stop the car used hand signals and fired warning shots before firing directly at the car, killing the driver and front seat passenger.

The statement also said that military officials extended their condolences for this "unfortunate incident" and were investigating.

So the vehicle did not stop and continued moving after warning shots were fired - the troops then killed the drivers while disabling the vehicle. They then discover that the vehicle was carrying innocent civilians and then proceed to render assistance. The troops acted exactly as they should have in that situation; remove the threat of a car that may well be packed full of explosives and then after finding out that it was a fatal mistake helping the survivors, a child covered with blood is a shocking image but that is what war is, a series of shocking events where people get killed.