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Old 02-13-2006, 10:08 PM   #16
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That is very well put, yolland. I'd like to see more of our communities today be more open-minded, especially when it comes to the age old debates on religious faith.

I must admit I've enjoyed reading a lot of what you have to say in these threads.
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Old 02-14-2006, 12:32 AM   #17
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Can anyone else see a vast amount of bullshit in this thread? I wont quote any replies. It has to be seen, or felt, I suppose, to be understood where my viewpoint comes from. I'm not going to argue someone's beliefs, though I question how it is presented.

I am married to a very conservative Christian (surprise, surprise) and adamantly disagree with much said in this thread about interfaith relationships and in particular how children fit in.
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Old 02-14-2006, 01:34 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Can anyone else see a vast amount of bullshit in this thread? I wont quote any replies. It has to be seen, or felt, I suppose, to be understood where my viewpoint comes from. I'm not going to argue someone's beliefs, though I question how it is presented.

I am married to a very conservative Christian (surprise, surprise) and adamantly disagree with much said in this thread about interfaith relationships and in particular how children fit in.
Your post is kind of inflammatory if you aren't willing to back up your contention of bullshit with anything. You say there is a vast amount of bullshit, but you won't put yourself out at all to explain why. So you seethe over the "bullshit" and no one else has a clue why.
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Old 02-14-2006, 05:12 AM   #19
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A friend's wise father once told me this: "All religions are but different paths to the same place."

Well said, he is a very wise man. Though I word it differently you summed up one of my beliefs perfectly there.

But a lot of people believe in a very (IMO) egotistical God, and I think anyone with such a ego doesn't deserve to be worshipped
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Old 02-14-2006, 06:12 AM   #20
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I can't see how a compassionate omnipotent and omniscient sentience would reveal antithetical philosophies to mankind with the intention of giving them all valid paths, seems more like a demented or sadistic creator with malicious intent for lesser forms. The logical contortions to justify or even accept the world as it is with a supreme being are far more convoluted and troubling than the simplest and most readily observable answer that there is no God.

As for interfaith marriages all I can go along with is that the absence of faith is a factor in a post-Enlightenment society and cultural ties when strongly connected to this can be broken. While this may work to the detriment of communal identity it can yield benefits across society as a whole and I cannot think of how it can be stopped (although I did read an article about how some in the Melbourne Jewish community wanted to see more cultural engagement with those who are not religiously observant).
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Old 02-14-2006, 06:30 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I can't see how a compassionate omnipotent and omniscient sentience would reveal antithetical philosophies to mankind with the intention of giving them all valid paths, seems more like a demented or sadistic creator with malicious intent for lesser forms.
Tower of Babel?

I don't really have any quarrel with the "all paths" outlook as far as it goes, but in practice it often reflects less an enlightened sensibility born from an honest attempt to study multiple paths, than an out-of-hand dismissal of the worth of attempting to walk any of them at all.

I think whether the absence of faith and decline of faith-based communal identity benefits society as a whole is a subjective and debatable matter. But that is a whole different can of worms really--it's contingent on so many other things, many of which have little to do with religion proper.
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Old 02-14-2006, 09:13 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I can't see how a compassionate omnipotent and omniscient sentience would reveal antithetical philosophies to mankind with the intention of giving them all valid paths, seems more like a demented or sadistic creator with malicious intent for lesser forms. The logical contortions to justify or even accept the world as it is with a supreme being are far more convoluted and troubling than the simplest and most readily observable answer that there is no God.
Of course, you are relying on the assumption that all the antithetical philosophies have been revealed by the same Being.
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Old 02-14-2006, 09:59 AM   #23
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The church (whatever church that happens to be) will deal with non-conformity in whatever fashion best suits its continued existence and relevancy.

Inter-faith couples will deal with spirituality and religion in whatever way works for their own relationship, continued growth and partnerhip.

Parenting in an inter-faith marriage is no different than practically every other parental issue. There are countless ways to approach what and how you teach your children depending on how you want them to behave throughout their lives and the degree to which you want them to carry on your family legacy (however that may be defined) vs forging their own.

Everyone has a different "right" way to it.
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Old 02-14-2006, 10:13 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Can anyone else see a vast amount of bullshit in this thread? I wont quote any replies. It has to be seen, or felt, I suppose, to be understood where my viewpoint comes from. I'm not going to argue someone's beliefs, though I question how it is presented.

I am married to a very conservative Christian (surprise, surprise) and adamantly disagree with much said in this thread about interfaith relationships and in particular how children fit in.


this is potentially very interesting, could you please offer more?
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Old 02-14-2006, 10:48 AM   #25
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There are certain qualities that we hope a potential partner would posess and if religion isn't that big on the list, then that would be your own personal preference.

Personally I prefer to be involved with somebody who shares the same religious beliefs as I do - the whole going to church together as a family thing apeals to me very much. In the same sense, I'd never date anyone who smoked or did drugs, had bad hygene or was too lazy to work.
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Old 02-14-2006, 12:31 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by AliEnvy
Inter-faith couples will deal with spirituality and religion in whatever way works for their own relationship, continued growth and partnerhip.

Parenting in an inter-faith marriage is no different than practically every other parental issue. There are countless ways to approach what and how you teach your children depending on how you want them to behave throughout their lives and the degree to which you want them to carry on your family legacy (however that may be defined) vs forging their own.

Everyone has a different "right" way to it.


I find it very hard to believe that any one particular religion/practice is "the right one," and any others are "wrong." A few years ago, a friend and I were suckered by two other friends to attend a youth group event......After we spent a few hours playing video games, basketball, and bumper cars, our two friends sat us down for "The God Talk." They essentially told us that we had to believe what they believed (Baptist), or else we'd go to hell. After my friend and I prodded them for a while, we got them to say that anyone who came before Christ was in hell. Anyone who hadn't heard of him, i.e. American Indians prior to "discovery" by Europeans, was in hell. We proposed a hypothetical situation whereby a man was spontaneously created on a desert island & had no access to a Bible or any Christian ideology. He, they told us, would go to hell. My wife, whose family is Jewish, was once told by a friend that she was in her friend's prayers---that my wife was a nice person & this friend hoped God wouldn't mind that she was Jewish.

Keeping traditions within a family is one thing. Believing that your traditions or beliefs are the only correct ones in the world, however, is another. My wife and I are going to do the best we can to raise our family in what we believe is the best way possible. I adamantly refuse to raise my children to develop a thought process that is anything at all like that of our "friends."
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Old 02-14-2006, 01:12 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Utoo
Keeping traditions within a family is one thing. Believing that your traditions or beliefs are the only correct ones in the world, however, is another. I adamantly refuse to raise my children to develop a thought process that is anything at all like that of our "friends."
I have to assume people who think that way wouldn't intermarry to begin with. I mean, why would you marry someone who you were convinced was going to hell? Hard to imagine a more radical disagreement about where life is headed than that. But this concept of "everyone else is going to hell" is totally foreign to Judaism, so I can't really speak to how someone who believes in it would connect it to the purpose of marriage.
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Old 02-14-2006, 07:00 PM   #28
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Of course, you are relying on the assumption that all the antithetical philosophies have been revealed by the same Being.
That becomes the assumption of all paths leading to the same place.
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Old 02-14-2006, 10:18 PM   #29
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Originally posted by yolland

The ceremony is just a marker, nothing more--you became Bat Mitzvah the day you turned 12, period. Meaning you were fully and autonomously invested on that day with the right to decide for yourself whether to be observant or not. The ceremony has no effect on that; it is just a celebration.
Strong point but I think you are missing a piece of the puzzle.

Sometimes faith/religon can not be boiled down to secular tidbits, celebrations, and whatnot.

Its enourmously deep full of complex conflicting emotions. It pushes us out and drives us in. And yet we come back to it.

No matter the reason, whether it is to notice the glint in a grand parent's proud eye or whether you do find god or some equivelent, there is that much talked about "feeling". The spark.

And no logic can touch that spark. None. And sometimes, alot of that time, that spark comes during that conformation, that bat mitzvah, or that celebration. I really feel that traditon and ceremony, while maybe not the path to god or enlightenment, are very important.

If for nothing else to become part of a grander scheme. Or to see that glint in the grand parents eye.
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Old 02-14-2006, 10:30 PM   #30
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while I was reading your post a question came to my mind: is it possible to raise children with ethical principles without religious dogma? I was raised catholic, I don't go to church, but I try to keep some of the moral principles that I learnt through religion. Obviously things will get more complicated for an interfaith marriage, what do you think about it?
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