in case you thought Patraeus was apolitical ... - Page 8 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-13-2007, 10:35 PM   #106
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



and the creation of the biggest nuclear threat since WW2. and things in iraq aren't nearly as clear as in Korea. Baghdad isn't Seoul. and this isn't a penninsula in the Pacific; this is the heart of the Middle East.
Which makes the mission even more important, not less.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




but tell me what you hope to achieve.
What the US Army achieved with the deaths of 33,000 in Korea and 290,000 in World War II - the spread of democracy.

This is a good thing - unless you somehow think the Middle Easterners are genetically challenged therefore incapable or not worth having such a system.
__________________

__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 09-13-2007, 10:49 PM   #107
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
What the US Army achieved with the deaths of 33,000 in Korea and 290,000 in World War II - the spread of democracy.

This is a good thing - unless you somehow think the Middle Easterners are genetically challenged therefore incapable or not worth having such a system.
1. Isn't it anti-democratic to force a system upon a group of people?

2. When did someone infer that they are "genetically challenged?"

3. What happened to the safety of our country?

4. Didn't Bush state that this had something to do with terrorists from al-Qaeda, the war on terror, and the safety of America?
__________________

__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 09-13-2007, 11:32 PM   #108
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Which makes the mission even more important, not less.


Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

What the US Army achieved with the deaths of 33,000 in Korea and 290,000 in World War II - the spread of democracy.

This is a good thing - unless you somehow think the Middle Easterners are genetically challenged therefore incapable or not worth having such a system.
Genetically challenged? 290,000 deaths a good thing? Your arguments are so "left field", detached, and down right bizarre, that it's hard to discuss anything with you...
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 09-13-2007, 11:34 PM   #109
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,238
Local Time: 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
What the US Army achieved with the deaths of 33,000 in Korea and 290,000 in World War II - the spread of democracy.
So the spread of democracy is worth it regardless of the cost?
__________________
Diemen is offline  
Old 09-13-2007, 11:48 PM   #110
Refugee
 
Infinity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,188
Local Time: 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26


1. Isn't it anti-democratic to force a system upon a group of people?

2. When did someone infer that they are "genetically challenged?"

3. What happened to the safety of our country?

4. Didn't Bush state that this had something to do with terrorists from al-Qaeda, the war on terror, and the safety of America?
Don't ask questions like that, you are being unpatriotic and not supporting the troops.


__________________
Infinity is offline  
Old 09-13-2007, 11:54 PM   #111
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

290,000 deaths a good thing?
No - the spread of democracy is the good thing these men and women died for.
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 09-13-2007, 11:56 PM   #112
Refugee
 
Infinity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,188
Local Time: 10:42 PM
Personally I think the idea of bombing a country in order to "spread" democracy is the biggest load of bullshit i've ever seen.

The idea of forcing a democracy onto the people kills the whole idea of democracy. What neo-cons fail to understand is that a democracy is a government made by the people, not by the world police (U.S.).
__________________
Infinity is offline  
Old 09-13-2007, 11:59 PM   #113
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Which makes the mission even more important, not less.



but does that make it more achievable or less?

are you ready to see an old school draft implemented? are you ready to sacrafice all these kids, our best and brightest, in order to force one country to adopt our government? didn't this already happen before, didn't the UK already try this, a good 100 or so years ago?



[q]What the US Army achieved with the deaths of 33,000 in Korea and 290,000 in World War II - the spread of democracy.[/q]

you haven't even defined what the US achieved in Korea. yes, Seoul is one thing, but we got North Korea as well. is this really a good thing?



Quote:
This is a good thing - unless you somehow think the Middle Easterners are genetically challenged therefore incapable or not worth having such a system.
it's funny when conservatives play the race card in reverse. you'll moan about affirmative action, but then call me a racist when i say that i'm not terribly encouraged by the ability of Arab culture to adopt liberal democratic values. can we have a democracy? sure. there was voting in Iraq last year and the year before. but is it a liberal society? (and by liberal i mean the toleration of differnet points of view) no, not by any means. in fact, in Iraq, as in Gaza, all democracy has done is legitimize thugs. Hitler was elected, never forget that. simply because there's a democracy in place doesn't mean that it's suddenly going to become Canada. it's far, far, far more complex than that, and i'm disappointed that after 4 years and exactly ZERO progress you're still playing the whole "you're a racist if you think that Iraqis can't be like Canadians" card.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 09-14-2007, 12:01 AM   #114
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26


1. Isn't it anti-democratic to force a system upon a group of people?

2. When did someone infer that they are "genetically challenged?"

3. What happened to the safety of our country?

4. Didn't Bush state that this had something to do with terrorists from al-Qaeda, the war on terror, and the safety of America?
1. I know of a few Southerners circa 1861 that would answer "yes"

2. By somehow thinking that the Middle East is incapable of democracy.

3) The entire Global War on Terror is about the safety of our country and democracies around the world. Petraeus is in one theater out of many.

4) In Iraq we are indeed fighting al-Queda, GWOT, and preserving US safety. The president and the congress are the right people to speak about the overall success GWOT, not Petraeus. I don't see why this is so difficult for people to understand.
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 12:03 AM   #115
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


No - the spread of democracy is the good thing these men and women died for.
Really? Can you honestly give me a detailed reason, how it worked here, and why democracy is the only government that works and therefore needs to be spread throughout?
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 12:08 AM   #116
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Really? Can you honestly give me a detailed reason, how it worked here, and why democracy is the only government that works and therefore needs to be spread throughout?
Give me an example of a government that is NOT a democracy that you consider "working" (I presume you mean working to mean good for the overwhelming majority of the citizens).

Do you prefer totalitarianism? communism? oligarchy? monarchy?
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 12:15 AM   #117
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Give me an example of a government that is NOT a democracy that you consider "working" (I presume you mean working to mean good for the overwhelming majority of the citizens).

Do you prefer totalitarianism? communism? oligarchy? monarchy?
Nice detail of how it worked in Korea...

So are we to invade Canada next?
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 12:19 AM   #118
ONE
love, blood, life
 
namkcuR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kettering, Ohio
Posts: 10,290
Local Time: 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Give me an example of a government that is NOT a democracy that you consider "working" (I presume you mean working to mean good for the overwhelming majority of the citizens).

Do you prefer totalitarianism? communism? oligarchy? monarchy?
That's not the point. We're not talking about the effectiveness(or non-effectiveness) of democracy. We're talking about the idea of forcing ANY governmental system on ANY country. Going from a totalitarian dictatorship to a democracy(or any governmental shift of that magnitude) is a revolution, and more often than not in world history, revolutions start within, not externally. This is not about whether democracy works or not, it's about why America feels like it has the right to force any governmental system at all on anyone. What gives us that right? Why do we think it's our place? Some of us think it is our place, and some of us think we have absolutely no right. That's what this is about.
__________________
namkcuR is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 12:23 AM   #119
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Nice detail of how it worked in Korea...

So are we to invade Canada next?
Do I really need to say that South Korea is "working" and North Korea is not?
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 12:25 AM   #120
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Do I really need to say that South Korea is "working" and North Korea is not?
yeah, you do, when you say the loss of that many lives is a "good thing" then yes you better back it up with something, it's apparant you can't...

You still haven't told me why democracy HAS to be spread...
__________________

__________________
BVS is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com